Tank crash - advice please! Also, sorry for my absence! I'm back :-)

AdoraBelle Dearheart

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Experiencing a crisis and lost a lot of fish in my father's 57 gallon, overstocked tank.

I've been in a bad depression and admit to neglecting caring for that tank, pretty sure it's tipped into old tank syndrome, it's overstocked since I haven't pulled young livebearers for a while, but it had been ticking over okay for a while.

A few days ago, found the last of the trio of ancient large mollies dying. I placed her in a breeder box so the other fish couldn't peck at her, and she passed overnight, I removed her in the morning.

Yesterday, found a zebra danio and a harlequin dead. There's masses of plant in there, loads of water lettuce and elodea, so I think the bodies might have been in there too long and spiked ammonia high. Since I knew I'd slacked on water changes, I only did a 15-20% water change yesterday, and added some Prime, hoping it would help with any spikes. Later found another danio dead, did a water test and ammonia showed zero, nitrites 0.5ppm, nitrates sky high, deep red.

Today, have pulled six dead fish. Did another 15-20% W/C, added more prime.

I'm scared to do a large water change, despite really wanting to... I don't want to make it worse and kill the other fish with a large change in water quality too suddenly.

Turns out, my dad had turned the overhead filters off... I hadn't seen since he'd just pulled the plug loose, not out, and the heavy plant cover hides the output. The day after he'd unplugged the main filter, leaving only a tiny internal filter on a large overstocked tank - fish started dying.

Lost one of the botia which I'm heartbroken about, and the largest female cory is gasping in a way that worries me. I'm so tempted to pull some fish and put them in my own tanks to try to save them and to reduce the bioload, but I also know the sudden change in water would be likely to kill them. I feel helpless just waiting til tomorrow to do another small water change while a fish is struggling, but the rest of the fish also look okay. Not gasping or fin clamped or anything, and I know to avoid big water changes in old tank syndrome.

What do you think I should do? Another W/C tonight and hope that's enough to save the cory and danio that are sitting on the bottom and breathing rapidly, or wait and accept that there could well be more losses? Move some fish out to reduce bioload? Perhaps drip acclimate them to my own, clean tanks?
 
I would personally drip acclimatise all the fish using the water of one of your cleaner tanks ASAP. If it is not practical to maintain the problem-tank its probably best to empty it and sell it.

I am sorry about your depression. I think one less thing to worry about while you deal with the depression may actually help you.
 
Welcome Back @AdoraBelle Dearheart . You've been missed by our members.
Sorry to hear you're not feeling well. Neglect of our tanks happens to the best of us from time to time. You need to get your nitrites and nitrates way down. I would do a 75% water change asap. And do another one tomorrow. See if that helps. Others should pipe in soon to give their opinions. Weight the opinions before acting.
 
We have a thread where we discuss feeling down and how to remedy it. Give it a read...it may help you feel better.
 
It's so good to see you back @AdoraBelle Dearheart!

I'm sorry you're not feeling well. In my experience, reading a good book and having a cup of hot chocolate, tea, or whatever soothing drink you prefer can help to destress and calm the mind.

I think the best thing to do is a large water change and gravel cleaning to try and clean up their environment a little bit. Saving all of the fish left is improbable, so saving some would be a small victory in a tough situation.
 
I would personally drip acclimatise all the fish using the water of one of your cleaner tanks ASAP. If it is not practical to maintain the problem-tank its probably best to empty it and sell it.

I am sorry about your depression. I think one less thing to worry about while you deal with the depression may actually help you.
Thank you so much for the advice, and to both of you for understanding and not beating me up for slacking on maintenance!

There are definitely long term plans to downsize/restructure the tanks, since this is too many to maintain right now, with everything else. Parents elderly and needing a lot more help, elderly dog had a health crisis and now has very reduced mobility, I have to use a harness and sling to help him outside each time he needs a potty break, poor love. So nursing care for the poor elderly dog, who we're just loving on while we can. As long as he has a good appetite, enjoys his food, fuss and doesn't seem distressed or in too much pain beyond arthritis that he's medicated for, we'll keep him going. So between looking after pets and parents, and my own mental illness kicking my butt, I definitely neglected that tank. It's partly because my dad hates when I do water changes and grumbles and gets moody with me, so while I've kept on top of my own, his one has been the last on the list since it's the largest and it's harder for me to do when he's napping or out the way I can do my own, smaller, over filtered tanks.

This tank was his tank, I just began maintaining it since he wasn't doing water changes or anything, so stocking etc hasn't been my choices. Over the last year or so I did pull it back from old tank syndrome and would periodically pull batches of livebearer young to take to LFS, or grow them out in my grow out tank before taking them to the store. That kept the population still heavily stocked, but just about under control. I've let that slack over the last couple of months and it was likely on a knife edge, then him unplugging the filter without telling me (GAH!! I've told him not to do that, I thought I'd broken him of that habit) tipped it over the edge and caused this disaster. But my slacking on the population control and not enough water changes is the reason I can't just fix this with back to back large water changes without risking shocking the fish and killing the whole tank.

Urgh, sorry guys. I'm glad I'm back, I've really missed being here. And it wasn't anyone here or anything that made me withdraw, that was just my own MI issues. But I'm sorry that it was a tank crisis that bought me back.

My other tanks are doing well and fish are thriving at least!
 
@Naughts @Stan510 and @Colin_T , would really appreciate any thoughts you guys have on whether to continue with small, daily water changes to adjust the water quality gradually and minimise shock, or whether to risk doing a larger 50 or 75% water change. Or if I should pull the fish that seem to be struggling (a bronze cory and pearl danio right now) and drip acclimate them to a clean tank. Or I could try pulling a large batch of the livebearers that seem absolutely fine and acclimate them to a clean tank, and reduce the bioload in the tank that crashed.

I'm so torn on which steps to take, knowing each option could be fatal.
 
Have you tested the tank water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH?
If yes, what are the results?

What is the pH of the tap water?
If the pH of the tank water is similar to the tap water, I would do a huge water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week.

If the pH of the tap water is significantly different to the tank water, then do a 30% water change and gravel clean once or twice a day (12 hours apart) until the tank's pH is closer to the tap pH, then do 75% water changes every day for a week.

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Clean the filters and get them working again.

If you have a nitrite reading, add 1 heaped tablespoon of rock salt for every 20 litres of water.
 
Your dad up to his old tricks again the nightmare :rofl:
I coulda killed him! Love him, but his weird ideas about "resting the motor" of the filters has caused me way too many nightmares! He hasn't touched the tank in ages, so I don't know why he got it in his head to unplug the main hood filters. Well, he said it was because the water level had dropped since heating has meant it evaporates faster, and he was worried about the intake and motor being above the water and burning out. But they're well under the waterline, and the water is only an inch or so below the rim. When fish started dying I was water testing and trying to work out what was going on, with no idea the main filter was unplugged. I was thinking old tank syndrome, but also confused about why so many were dying so suddenly, thought it has tipped over the balance and started to crash, but old tank syndrome itself doesn't usually mean lots of fish dying in the same day... so I was testing and trying to decide whether to go for a large water change, or smaller daily ones etc, then he mentions at 8pm tonight that maybe him unplugging the filter had something to do with it. He was talking about removing the hood filters, thinking they were poisoning the tank or something...

So I only discovered tonight that the main filters had been unplugged for two days. :crazy: No wonder fish started dropping. That only left a tiny little internal filter on an overstocked, 57 gallon tank which I only really added for oxygenation/flow reasons, not to handle that bioload!

@Colin_T Thank you so much!
Water test results pre-water change were ammonia 0, nitrites 0.25ppm, nitrates a deep red, way too high, I can't tell whether 80 or 160ppm :(

I haven't tested pH. I admit I get confused about pH, but I have the API kit and can test that now, also have a GH and KH kit if those numbers would be useful? Tap pH is usually between 7,6 and 8.

So is it a sudden change in pH that is the most risky when doing water changes or moving any fish from that tank?

I did rinse the filters in old tank water and get them running again, and I pinched some media from the canisters I have running on my own tanks to try and help jump start the bacteria lost while the filters were off. The media in the filters was still damp so I'm hoping some bacteria survived, but I know I will have lost a lot of the nitrifying bacteria while the filters were off. I'm banking on/praying that the research suggesting a lot go dormant and will 'wake up', to pull the tank back, combined with the media I added and the substrate/tank bacteria repopulating.

I did gravel vac while doing the WC and moved decor around to make sure there were no more bodies producing ammonia (found a dead molly while doing that too :( ) so I'm sure there are no more bodies in there, and haven't fed them of course.

The cory is looking better. Still breathing a bit faster than I'd like, but otherwise looking normal, and poking about looking for food like the others are. The others are breathing normally. Hoping the 15-20% WC, Prime and getting the filters back on has pulled it back enough for them to make it overnight.

Will test the pH now, and retest the nitrites and see if there's still nitrites showing. I have salt I can add if needed, but I think the Prime also sorts out nitrites for 48 hours? I might have that wrong. Will check if the pH is close enough for a large water change, thank you so much!
 
@Circus I'm glad to see that you're still here too! :friends: I hope @NCaquatics pops back in, I miss her tons. Also hope @seangee is still around?

@AbbeysDad ! Lovely to see your name on the sidebar and know that you're still here too! I forwarded your article about mulm, snails etc to some fish keeping friends since I found that article so useful before I even came to this forum, I found it when I was googling what the word mulm meant when I first set up my tank :D They loved the article too.
 
Yo! Missed you loads missy.?

Yeh its the big change in PH thats thats the worry for swapping out the water. The high nitrates = high nitric acid which has probably lowered the KH and PH. Doing a big fat water change will subject them all to a swing in PH so slow and steady would be better.. 20% twice per day if you can. Might not save them all but I think it would help to save some at least ??
 
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@Circus I'm glad to see that you're still here too! :friends: I hope @NCaquatics pops back in, I miss her tons. Also hope @seangee is still around?

@AbbeysDad ! Lovely to see your name on the sidebar and know that you're still here too! I forwarded your article about mulm, snails etc to some fish keeping friends since I found that article so useful before I even came to this forum, I found it when I was googling what the word mulm meant when I first set up my tank :D They loved the article too.
Your back! Yay! ?

Was wondering where you went...

@NCaquatics and @seangee haven't been on for a while, not sure why. @Crispii and @JuiceBox52 also left for some reason.

Anyway, there are still a lot more active and awesome members still here. Glad your back! :friends:
 

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