Swami’s Tidepool Biotype ideas

[robmcd]

So, California law states you are not allowed to take any animal from the wild and keep it for yourself

Do you know how to get a permit?

See if your mom can pull some strings as a biologist.

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

Now I’m wondering this: do I spend 160 bucks on fish, or save it for this project?

 

[Donya]

I need to make a correction: when I read the sea slug name I just realized I was thinking of the wrong group. I gather those common names are true nudis which are actually more likely to starve and poison the tank when they die. Most colorful true nudis eat coral and/or sponges at a rate that makes them unsustainable in small tank (and often even a large one because the food species are hard to grow in tanks anyway).

So, California law states you are not allowed to take any animal from the wild and keep it for yourself

Obviously I don't really support keeping the majority of animals together on the list due to them being extremely hard to keep or problematic in some other way, but some states have exception for things that count as "bait species" with a fishing license, which is how it is where I have collected things. In such cases it does pretty much limit you to things like snails, true crabs, hermit crabs, and bits of washed up seaweed (and whatever hitchhikers are on it by accident) though and CA may not even be that permissive. Some pet stores also receive native fauna by accident which is how I ended up with some east coast anemones once, and of course those can't go back in the wild for the same reasons I listed. So, if you are very patient and have stores that area really into inverts, sometimes you can find things like that.

 

[NannaLou]

Firstly, I need to say I have no idea about any of this

But my one thought would be, that tidal pools work because twice a day they flood which bring fresh water (clean water), food and the things in the can choose to go to another pool. How will you manage that water change aspect in a tank..?

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

I always struggle with anyone who takes it upon themselves to decide that the law doesn't matter and is just something to find a loophole, so as to work around it.

I can fully appreciate that the beautiful tank @eatyourpeas has created is amazingly inspirational, but I'm also aware of the expertise he is demonstrating, not only in setting it up, but in its complex management.
Currently, I would strongly suspect that you do not yet have this level of skill and knowledge to make it work and, at this point, any endeavour to gain those would result in the suffering and subsequent death of living creatures.
Perhaps you could focus on your existing freshwater tank/s and perfect the skills needed for those, before moving onto the marine environment?

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

I always struggle with anyone who takes it upon themselves to decide that the law doesn't matter and is just something to find a loophole, so as to work around it.

I can fully appreciate that the beautiful tank @eatyourpeas has created is amazingly inspirational, but I'm also aware of the expertise he is demonstrating, not only in setting it up, but in its complex management.
Currently, I would strongly suspect that you do not yet have this level of skill and knowledge to make it work and, at this point, any endeavour to gain those would result in the suffering and subsequent death of living creatures.
Perhaps you could focus on your existing freshwater tank/s and perfect the skills needed for those, before moving onto the marine environment?

I admit, I am not the best fish keeper, but I am definetly a good Fishkeeper. I don’t have 20 years experience, but I am knowledgeable. I will be following the Laws, I will be maintaining the tank as needed, and I am definetly not a total noob. I have 5 fish tanks, all of which are thriving. I do weekly water changes, I do research almost everyday, and I spent 7 hours of my time looking at laws, the fish, the caring for the fish, the salinity of the water, how to maintain a saltwater tank, etc. Tidepool creatures are one of the hardiest fish. There is always a change in temperature, even a small change in salinity. I’m not saying I’m perfect, but I have at least mastered the art of water changing, I am quite knowledgeable about freshwater fish of all species, behaviors, medicine, algae, aggression, how to prevent it, because I’ve had these Experiences before. There isn’t a Better way to learn than get your hands dirty! And if it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Working around a law isn't always the same as deciding the law doesn't matter. When I used to keep native fish, which is generally not legal in Wyoming, I talked with a number of game wardens and fisheries biologists to find a way to do it legally, with the proper permits. Some actions are simply always illegal for very good reasons (releasing invasive fish, for example--there's no good reason and no good way to do that). Other actions are generally illegal, but can be done with the proper permits and permissions. In Wyoming, not just anybody with a net and a tank can legally keep native fish. But there are "work arounds" with which it can be done. The thing is, anyone conscientious enough to jump through the legal hoops is likely to put in the time to be a good fish keeper.

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

Working around a law isn't always the same as deciding the law doesn't matter. When I used to keep native fish, which is generally not legal in Wyoming, I talked with a number of game wardens and fisheries biologists to find a way to do it legally, with the proper permits. Some actions are simply always illegal for very good reasons (releasing invasive fish, for example--there's no good reason and no good way to do that). Other actions are generally illegal, but can be done with the proper permits and permissions. In Wyoming, not just anybody with a net and a tank can legally keep native fish. But there are "work arounds" with which it can be done. The thing is, anyone conscientious enough to jump through the legal hoops is likely to put in the time to be a good fish keeper.

Well said.

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Well said.

It's about attitude and the actual purpose of the laws is often overlooked, or considered 'irrelevant' when compared to personal wants. In almost all cases, the welfare of living creatures is the priority and I'd be happy to suggest that those who advocate finding 'work-arounds' place animal welfare lower down their list of priorities than they could be.

 

[I Like Rare Fish]

It's about attitude and the actual purpose of the laws is often overlooked, or considered 'irrelevant' when compared to personal wants. In almost all cases, the welfare of living creatures is the priority and I'd be happy to suggest that those who advocate finding 'work-arounds' place animal welfare lower down their list of priorities than they could be.

Dude, loopholes are loopholes. laws are laws. If it isn’t illegal, you can do it. I care about my fish. Why are you criticizing me about my fish keeping? I love animals. I always have. I would not even consider for a moment animal welfare being low on my priority list.

 

[NannaLou]

It's about attitude and the actual purpose of the laws is often overlooked, or considered 'irrelevant' when compared to personal wants. In almost all cases, the welfare of living creatures is the priority and I'd be happy to suggest that those who advocate finding 'work-arounds' place animal welfare lower down their list of priorities than they could be.

Why? Why would you come to that opinion? If the person has done that much research, and jumped through all the hoops to get the necessary waivers/permits etc. Why would you assume that they wouldn’t care for the welfare of whatever it was they were taking in..?

My Nan always said, “If you can’t say something nice, then don’t say anything at all” (I think Thumper said that in Bambi as well). And perhaps if you don’t have anything positive to add you should take that approach?

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

Why? Why would you come to that opinion? If the person has done that much research, and jumped through all the hoops to get the necessary waivers/permits etc. Why would you assume that they wouldn’t care for the welfare of whatever it was they were taking in..?

Because the law was acknowledged, closely followed by assertions to find a way around it, just so the OP could have what he wanted.

My Nan always said, “If you can’t say something nice, then don’t say anything at all” (I think Thumper said that in Bambi as well). And perhaps if you don’t have anything positive to add you should take that approach?

There's a lot of pot calling the kettle black there!

 

[Donya]

Tidepool creatures are one of the hardiest fish. There is always a change in temperature, even a small change in salinity.

This is a narrow definition of "hardy" that is not the same as "easy to keep." Usually when people talk about hardy sw animals they mean animals that are well suited to captive conditions, including things like eating easily available foods or even just staying in the water. Many tidal animals have needs that can't be met easily in an aquarium. Examples include sea slugs that eat specific species of corals or sponges and hermit crabs that have a strong need to get out of the water sometimes - this is typically the case for the large Clibanarius species that exist along the US coastlines and many other coastal parts of the world. Just because something can tolerate swings in one or more parameters doesn't make it easy to keep. Uncommonly kept marine animals are also basically guaranteed to catch you out at some point with surprise issues or behaviors that are not in books, forums, etc. because these are not commonly kept animals and therefore typically poorly documented in captivity compared to your standard LFS stock. I had a tidal true crab escape its tank once and only knew because I got lucky and found it in the kitchen sniffing around some crumbs; I had to use a hot dog to lure it out of a small gap I couldn't reach into. Hardy to environment changes? Obviously, since it was eating junk from my kitch floor! But not easy to keep.

 

[NannaLou]

Because the law was acknowledged, closely followed by assertions to find a way around it, just so the OP could have what he wanted.

I’m trying really hard not to hijack this thread and cause an argument, but I still don’t understand why you would assume he wouldn’t take care of the fish? Lots of people find work-arounds to get what they want: credit cards instead of saving - but you still have to be responsible and pay it back.

As for the pot/kettle, I don’t think I’ve been rude or unkind, just offered a suggestion that you might be responded to more favourably if you didn’t post such rude/negative comments and keep your posts to information sharing…

 

[Bruce Leyland-Jones]

As for the pot/kettle, I don’t think I’ve been rude or unkind, just offered a suggestion that you might be responded to more favourably if you didn’t post such rude/negative comments and keep your posts to information sharing…

It is information sharing, until you don't like it and then it becomes rude/negative. I'll find it easier to ignore your future posts, perhaps you could do likewise and ignore mine.

Please read carefully the first post;
"Unfortunately, you are unable to collect animals, or even rocks at swamis, so that leaves me looking for the most common fish in Swami’s tidepools. So this is the stock that I want..."

...and what follows, perhaps paying special attention to @Donya 's input.