Sump or canister for tropical

[madmark285]

drilling the tank

Yep. All the work involved in setting up a sump filtration system would be a down side for most people, it may be a multiple day project. A canister or HOB filter can be setup in 15 minutes. I personally like building things so sumps are fun for me.

It is a trade off, do the work up front and maintenance is much easier with a properly designed sump system. My 75 gallon tank with sump is easier to maintain than the 29 gallon with a Tidal 55 HOB filter I have.

Side note: For my 29 gallon tank, I just connected the Tidal 55 to a DIY undergravel filter. This should be a very easy tank to maintain if using gravel substrate. The DIY UGF is an easy project.

My bias against canister filter comes from the old days when they did not have quick disconnects for the water lines, it was a pain to maintain. . Modern canister filter have quick disconnects.

 

[Gaz111]

You can buy prefilter surface skimmers with an auto syphon that you hang on the back or side of the tank and connect some hose that goes to the sump. No drilling required. You can also make them out of pvc pipe.

My first marine tank i made one from pvc I then had a Cleartide overflow box but found it lost its syphon from time to time. I’m in the uk I copied and pasted surface skimmer but not seeing how I’d get the water over the tank. Could you show me a picture of what you mean please

 

[Colin_T]

I don't have a picture but it's just an auto syphon with a surface skimmer on it.

 

[madmark285]

ould you show me a picture of what you mean please

Sure.

Ignore the sponge filters, that is a bad idea in my opinion. So notice the dividing wall next to the siphon tubes. When you turn your main pump off, the ends of the siphon tubes are in water. When you turn the pump back on, the siphon will restart automatically.

Since the siphon tubes are so critical, I would use 4 instead of 2. If the siphons stop working with the pump on, your tank will overflow until the sump is drained.

Note: I strongly recommend the Herbie drain system ie: a main siphon line to the sump with a gate valve and emergency overflow line. Note sure what you used in your marine systems.
Personally, I would just do it right and drill holes on your tank.

 

[madmark285]

One more advantage of sumps, the water level in the tank is constant. I am old school, I like framed aquariums with a cover. I don't like seeing the water line, sumps are great for my needs.

 

[Gaz111]

One more advantage of sumps, the water level in the tank is constant. I am old school, I like framed aquariums with a cover. I don't like seeing the water line, sumps are great for my needs.

 

[Gaz111]

Ye I’ve had open rimless for years looking forward to having a top to be fair. Since I’ve always had sumps I don’t like idea of having equipment in the main tank like heaters.

Am starting to wonder if for ease the canister maybe is the way to go by the time I factor in cost of buying all the things for the the sump and time. I can see myself going back and forth a few times

 

[madmark285]

I just set it up but I have high hopes for my DIY undergravel filter powered by a Tidal 55 HOB filter (29 gallon tank). Once the bacteria colonies get established, I will have a low maintenance UGF and the flexible option with the HOB filter. I can just leave the Tidal empty, it's just a power head.

I live in the USA, the Tidal intake tube fit perfectly inside a piece of 1" PVC pipe. So building a DIY UGF was easy. Not sure about UK PVC sizes. For myself, vacuuming the gravel is just a part of my normal water change routine.

I mounted the Tidal on the side with a DIY lid made out of PVC trim boards:

 

[madmark285]

Am starting to wonder if for ease the canister maybe is the way to go by the time I factor in cost of buying all the things for the the sump and time. I can see myself going back and forth a few times

Fully understand, setting up a sump system is alot of work.+

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I'm late to the party, but I wanted to make one last general case for sumps. I know you, @Gaz111 , have experience and know much of this. But, because others are reading it, I thought this might be useful broadly.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to start an argument with anyone out there, but for me, I prefer sumps. In my experience anything that is a bonus for a can, a sump has but more so:
Lots of media possible -> sump more so
Added water volume -> sump more so
Can hide equipment -> sump more so

Both can run silently. Both have some level of leak risk (really any time you decide you are going to remove water from a tank for processing - even HOBs to some extent). What I have found is that can filters can be great options for folks who want an off-the-shelf solution for filtration. So, new aquarists, or those worried about the DIY aspect of sumps. And there is nothing wrong with that! The caution I have is that cans often end up as a set-it-and-forget-it type of system. Out of sight, out of mind. That's understandable but not optimal.

But there are some areas where sumps are miles ahead of cans. For a start, accessibility for consistent maintenance is one. A sump gives you access to everything. A well designed sump is so easy to maintain! My best sumps take me under 5 minutes a week to maintain.

Another bonus is the greater ease of redundancy. For things like returns, you can run two smaller pumps if you like. If one goes out, you aren't falling off a cliff. Same for heaters, which are notoriously problematic these days. Cans just can't approach that level of insurance and peace of mind. Plus, you can selectively put equipment on battery back up for much less investment than if you had to run and entire canister off a battery.

The last thing I will say is that sumps really are flexible as a platform. I have a tank that in the last decade has gone from a planted tank, to a cichlid tank, and finally to a marine tank. Over all these changes, I never had to substantially modify the structure of my filtration! Need a skimmer because it's a reef tank now? No problem. Dropped it in! Want to explore what socks do or don't do for your system? Put them in, take them out. Your choice. Sure, I added a wall for a refugium at one point, but I did that wile the system was going.

It's just that sumps like that aren't an off-the-shelf solution. That, in general, a sump is not. And I fully understand OP's concerns about drilling a tank. Having done it many times now (all of my tanks are drilled even if they are running air driven filtration as I have automatic water change set up on them all) it no longer concerns me. But that first time was anxiety inducing, as was the firs time I drilled a larger tank (who wants to ruin an expensive tank?!!!). But, for those who either have a pre-drilled tank, can find someone who can/will drill a tank, or are capable themselves, for my money, a sump is simply a better platform for filtration.

 

[Gaz111]

I'm late to the party, but I wanted to make one last general case for sumps. I know you, @Gaz111 , have experience and know much of this. But, because others are reading it, I thought this might be useful broadly.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to start an argument with anyone out there, but for me, I prefer sumps. In my experience anything that is a bonus for a can, a sump has but more so:
Lots of media possible -> sump more so
Added water volume -> sump more so
Can hide equipment -> sump more so

Both can run silently. Both have some level of leak risk (really any time you decide you are going to remove water from a tank for processing - even HOBs to some extent). What I have found is that can filters can be great options for folks who want an off-the-shelf solution for filtration. So, new aquarists, or those worried about the DIY aspect of sumps. And there is nothing wrong with that! The caution I have is that cans often end up as a set-it-and-forget-it type of system. Out of sight, out of mind. That's understandable but not optimal.

But there are some areas where sumps are miles ahead of cans. For a start, accessibility for consistent maintenance is one. A sump gives you access to everything. A well designed sump is so easy to maintain! My best sumps take me under 5 minutes a week to maintain.

Another bonus is the greater ease of redundancy. For things like returns, you can run two smaller pumps if you like. If one goes out, you aren't falling off a cliff. Same for heaters, which are notoriously problematic these days. Cans just can't approach that level of insurance and peace of mind. Plus, you can selectively put equipment on battery back up for much less investment than if you had to run and entire canister off a battery.

The last thing I will say is that sumps really are flexible as a platform. I have a tank that in the last decade has gone from a planted tank, to a cichlid tank, and finally to a marine tank. Over all these changes, I never had to substantially modify the structure of my filtration! Need a skimmer because it's a reef tank now? No problem. Dropped it in! Want to explore what socks do or don't do for your system? Put them in, take them out. Your choice. Sure, I added a wall for a refugium at one point, but I did that wile the system was going.

It's just that sumps like that aren't an off-the-shelf solution. That, in general, a sump is not. And I fully understand OP's concerns about drilling a tank. Having done it many times now (all of my tanks are drilled even if they are running air driven filtration as I have automatic water change set up on them all) it no longer concerns me. But that first time was anxiety inducing, as was the firs time I drilled a larger tank (who wants to ruin an expensive tank?!!!). But, for those who either have a pre-drilled tank, can find someone who can/will drill a tank, or are capable themselves, for my money, a sump is simply a better platform for filtrat

I'm late to the party, but I wanted to make one last general case for sumps. I know you, @Gaz111 , have experience and know much of this. But, because others are reading it, I thought this might be useful broadly.

Just to be clear, I am not trying to start an argument with anyone out there, but for me, I prefer sumps. In my experience anything that is a bonus for a can, a sump has but more so:
Lots of media possible -> sump more so
Added water volume -> sump more so
Can hide equipment -> sump more so

Both can run silently. Both have some level of leak risk (really any time you decide you are going to remove water from a tank for processing - even HOBs to some extent). What I have found is that can filters can be great options for folks who want an off-the-shelf solution for filtration. So, new aquarists, or those worried about the DIY aspect of sumps. And there is nothing wrong with that! The caution I have is that cans often end up as a set-it-and-forget-it type of system. Out of sight, out of mind. That's understandable but not optimal.

But there are some areas where sumps are miles ahead of cans. For a start, accessibility for consistent maintenance is one. A sump gives you access to everything. A well designed sump is so easy to maintain! My best sumps take me under 5 minutes a week to maintain.

Another bonus is the greater ease of redundancy. For things like returns, you can run two smaller pumps if you like. If one goes out, you aren't falling off a cliff. Same for heaters, which are notoriously problematic these days. Cans just can't approach that level of insurance and peace of mind. Plus, you can selectively put equipment on battery back up for much less investment than if you had to run and entire canister off a battery.

The last thing I will say is that sumps really are flexible as a platform. I have a tank that in the last decade has gone from a planted tank, to a cichlid tank, and finally to a marine tank. Over all these changes, I never had to substantially modify the structure of my filtration! Need a skimmer because it's a reef tank now? No problem. Dropped it in! Want to explore what socks do or don't do for your system? Put them in, take them out. Your choice. Sure, I added a wall for a refugium at one point, but I did that wile the system was going.

It's just that sumps like that aren't an off-the-shelf solution. That, in general, a sump is not. And I fully understand OP's concerns about drilling a tank. Having done it many times now (all of my tanks are drilled even if they are running air driven filtration as I have automatic water change set up on them all) it no longer concerns me. But that first time was anxiety inducing, as was the firs time I drilled a larger tank (who wants to ruin an expensive tank?!!!). But, for those who either have a pre-drilled tank, can find someone who can/will drill a tank, or are capable themselves, for my money, a sump is simply a better platform for filtration.

I agree with everything you have said. I’ve been looking at canisters all week and apart from being plug in and play sumps are better all the way I think!

 

[madmark285]

I’ve been looking at canisters all week and apart from being plug in and play sumps are better all the way I think!

On your research on canister filters, how often will you have to clean the canister filter? I was watching a video on youtube, this woman had a large African cichlid tank with (2) Fluval FX6 (? or FX4) filters on it. I was surprised on her maintenance schedule, she would clean a filter every 3 months. On my fresh water sumps, the longest I would go on replacing the filter socks was 2 weeks. I believe Mr. OnlyGenusCaps replaces the socks every 3-4 days on his marine system.

This doesn't add up in my head, how can these canister filter hold all that organic material? So 100% speculation from me, I assume canister filters excel at breaking down this organic material into nitrates which can be easily controlled with regular water changes. Is this what you want?

I ask this as I am currently building a new sump (using a 29 gallon tank) for my planned 75 gallon Mbuna tank, I like building things. I could put 5 filter socks in the sump (4" ring, 12-14 " long) and clean them once a month. But is that really wise ie: leaving all that organic material in the sump? Just using 2 socks and replacing them every 1-2 weeks may be a better choice, get the organic material out before it breaks down.

My personal goal for filtration systems, separate the mechanical and bio filters. For a sump, a low maintenance fluidized bed filter is the only choice. For mechanical filtration, Mr. OnlyGenusCaps may use poret foam blocks in the filter sock holders, just rinse them out with warm water for cleaning twice a week.

I had to make a emergency purchase of the Tidal 55 HOB filter as I had to quickly break down a leaking tank. I hated this filter, pain in the a** to clean. The leaky tank was fixed, now what do i do with this filter. So my logic for a 29 gallon Tetra tank, the Tidal 55 will drive a low maintenance undergravel filter and will use the filter basket for mechanical filtration. We see how this goes.

 

[simonas]

I've had sumps on my tanks for the last 10 years or so. I bought a 4ft grow out tank last year with canister filter and I found maintaining a canister filter again after all these years a real pain in the backside.
Saying that I am keeping small fish again and plants for the first time since I have used a sump and I am having a problem with the plants leaves etc getting caught in the weir comb and reudcing flow and small fish going down the weir comb which hopefully I have rectified

 

[madmark285]

which hopefully I have rectified

How did you rectify the problem? I lost a Hillstream loach, found him in the filter sock.

I was thinking about adding a removable screen in front of the weir/overflow box. It would be ~6 mm away from the weir/box , water could go thru it or under it.

 

[simonas]

How did you rectify the problem? I lost a Hillstream loach, found him in the filter sock.

I was thinking about adding a removable screen in front of the weir/overflow box. It would be ~6 mm away from the weir/box , water could go thru it or under it.

The problem I had was I had made the slats on the weir bigger as I kept big fish in that tank prior to an upgrade, now that I was keeping small fish I was losing them in to the sump so I used some plastic mesh I use for bonsai plant pot drainage holes and glued it over where I had made the holes bigger. Seems to have worked
Only issue I have now is the plants leaves etc clogging it up now which is a pain but I really want plants with these discus and tetras