Substrate

[herefishyfishy]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of going with out a substrate?

 

[Fuzzy]

i personaly prefer substrate in my tank and u should probaly go with it to

disadvantages to not having substrate:
with substrate helpful bacteria will form.
cant keep certain fish and inverts.
many inverts like hermits have trouble with out substrate when getting around.
hard to keep wierd shaped rocks stable.
it can be bad for rocks to be on the glass

advantages: cant think of any

 

[ste2k3]

hard to keep wierd shaped rocks stable.
it can be bad for rocks to be on the glass

I would not put rocks straight onto the sand as it can cause a build up of organics and could go anerobic. I would put them straight on the glass to minimise the effect. the only problem i can think of with putteng them on glass it that any sharp edges would put a high pressure on a small space. I would go with sand if I were you though. just put your rock in and scatter a fine covering (just enough to cover the glass at the front. you could go one step better by geting a reef clean/flush system made.

ste

 

[ostrow]

that's a first ste. i believe virtually everyone with a dsb has rock on top of sand. not sure how else to do it... my rock sits on sand. i'm not sure how rock on sand is worse than rock surrounded by sand, logically speaking. a good cleanup crew, good circulation, and sound feeding techniques should prevent the problems you hint at.

would be interested in gl's thoughts here.

 

[ste2k3]

if you have a large piece of rock sat on sand, then no hermits snails etc will be able to get under the rock to clean the sand so you would have to rely on burrowing worms etc to turn the sand over under the rocks. a lack or burrowing critters could result in organics building up under there. I don't have a DSB as such, but I do have a seperate sump as an experiment which is 50% miracle mud and 50% fine sand. In my main tank all the rock work is suspended 1" off the bottom of the tank and there is a jet of water keeping the base of the tank under the rock free of detritus. at the front of the tank, there is 1/2" of sand, gravel and coral branches. As you know, I'm not a great fan of DSB's as I have seen a lot fail, but I have also seen a lot work fine for years. I personally wouldn't like to take the risk my self an this is why I have it in a seperate sump so it could be isolated or easly moved if need be. back to the rock on sand thing, this may work in a DSB where burrowing critters are plentiful, but in a system with a fine layer of sand, where there may not be so many worms etc, then IMO under the rock would never get cleaned.

ste

 

[ostrow]

I have seen people put eggcrate down and put the rock on top of that. Not sure where people get that stuff from. But I don't have that. I suppose I could remove ALL the rock, put eggcrate down and put the rock back in. I COULD. But I have oodles of worms all over. I'm not worried. Yet. But I'm gonna post in RC and see what folk think.

 

[ste2k3]

if its working fine as it is, then I don't see a need to change it. I have put my rock on eggcrate the same as this guy. I think you can get eggcrate from places that do ceiling tiles etc as it is used for light covers (I think)

ste

 

[ostrow]

Well on RC Dr. Ron Shimek puts his directly on the sand. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me. Consensus there is, burrowing snails easily get deep enough to get under the rockwork...

 

[Great Lakes]

I put down a sprinkling of sand, the I have large flat pieces of limestone that I lay down to build my rockwork upon. Then I add the rest of my sand.

 

[ste2k3]

Dr. Ron Shimek puts his directly on the sand. If it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me

I have just been speaking to a friend of mine about this subject and he had a good point that Dr. Ron Shimek lives in florida where he has available as many critters as he wants, all he needs to do is collect them from the beach. Here in the UK things like that are limited unless you live by the sea and even then theres not as much available.. does any one know if he "top's up" his DSB or not? as this could make a big difference not only in putting rocks on it but also, the functioning of the DSB.

ste

 

[ostrow]

I know for a fact that he removes NOTHING from the ocean. Doing so is against federal law and he's on the up-and-up.

 

[ste2k3]

I know for a fact that he removes NOTHING from the ocean. Doing so is against federal law and he's on the up-and-up.

Is it? wow, didn't know your not allowed to take anything from the ocean over there.

ok

ste

 

[Great Lakes]

"Doing so is against federal law"

OH OH.... )

GL

 

[EddieW]

I put my rocks in first in both of my tanks. I was advised to do so as if you get something burrowing under the rock the movement of the sand can cause the rocks to shift and maybe topple over. I was also told about the anerobic/organic problems with sand under the rock that Ste mentioned.

I guess its just one of those areas where people have oppoising opinions.....

It would be too easy if we all agreed.....

Cheers, Eddie

 

[ostrow]

seems like views split according to which side of hte pond you are on. maybe sand is different over on your side?