Substrate questions

ICEEGRL

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If I mix ecocomplete with sand will the larger stuff come up or go down? I want the sand on top.
I need nutrition for plants and soft for corys and dark for me.
my last tank had black Tahitian moon sand but they don’t make it any more. Apparently it killed some people’s stuff.
suggestions please...
 
If you cap the Eco with sand you should be okay so long as you don't disturb, or have any fish that disturbs the substrate. Otherwise the sand will sink and the larger Eco will rise to the top. I'm assuming you're going to be planting the tank and that's why you're using the Eco. If so put the plants in the Eco first and then top it with the sand. Just keep in mind that this will make it hard to do any landscaping in the future.
 
All of my plants are in sand, I add fertiliser tabs periodically into the sand…plants (albeit ‘easy to grow’ types) are doing really well
 
Sand is sufficient, as @NannaLou mentioned. But to answer your question, the smallest-grain material will always eventually sink below any larger-grain material. Fish activity can assist this, but the natural water movement through a substrate--especially one that is planted--will cause this anyway. Reason is that water in the substrate is warmer due to the decomposition of organics and the plant roots, and warm water always rises, so being warmer than the upper water the water in the substrate rises, while the "cooler" aquarium water sinks into the substrate. This is a continual process. Eventually the sand will be below the co-complete or whatever other material.

As for Eco-complete, in my view which is shared by many who have used it, this is a waste of money. Inert soft sand is without question the overall best substrate for fish and plants. It is simple enough to use substrate tabs for large plants, with or without a liquid fertilizer. It depends upon the plants and natural nutrient availability.

You mention cories, and they should absolutely never be subjected to any of these "plant" substrates. It is not just roughness, but bacterial issues associated with the substrate material. And most are too large to allow cories to naturally filter feed which is in their DNA. Several years ago I was persuaded by well-meaning folk on another forum to use a plant substrate, so I selected Flourite as in my bare hand, it felt less rough than Eco-complete, and they are for all practicality the same. Big mistake. Not only did the Flourite not make much (if any) difference, it nearly destroyed my cories; within a week their mouths were a literal bloody mess, and I took them out. They fortunately recovered in a tank with play sand. Never again. I have since learned from several catfish-knowledgeable dealers and breeders that these substrates aree dangerous for all catfish, and not just the sharpness aspect.

I changed all my tanks from a fine gravel to play sand about 8 or 9 years ago (except the Flourite experiment--BTW, after two years I tore that tank down and dumped the Flourite in the back garden), and have never regretted it. As you are in the USA, check with places like Lowe's and Home Depot; they carry the Quikrete brand of play sand, and this is a very safe substrate. Not all "play sand" is the same, but Quikrete is, and it comes in a dark grey and a normal sand buff tone. [Black is actually not the best "colour" for fish, though not as bad as pure white.]
 
Yes. I plan to fully plant. I have bred many corys in the past and always kept them on sand. They just don’t make what I used before so I was left searching. It has been a while and there are so many kinds out there.
Thank you. I will check it out. I have never seen the grey. Sounds good.
How do I figure how much I will need?
 
Yes. I plan to fully plant. I have bred many corys in the past and always kept them on sand. They just don’t make what I used before so I was left searching. It has been a while and there are so many kinds out there.
Thank you. I will check it out. I have never seen the grey. Sounds good.
How do I figure how much I will need?
Firstly, an apology, I’m English and work in metric measurements…

If you calculate the volume of the area you want to fill (60cm x 40cm x 5cm) length x depth x height you will end up with 12,000 cubic centimetre, divide this by 1000 = 12 cubic litres. One litre of water is roughly equivalent to one kilogram of sand.
 
How do I figure how much I will need?

Tank size is not mentioned here, but this sand comes in 25kg (50 pound) sacks. It is always wise to have extra. And it is so inexpensive...you will likely get a sack for around 5 to 6 dollars.
 

You do not want pool filter sand, it is much less refined than their play sand, and thus more rough. I went into this in detail with a representative of Quikrete a few years back, and he informed me that no sand they produce is as highly refined as their play sand. He said, kids will get sand in their eyes, mouth, swallow it...so they refine play sand after they have thoroughly washed down the machine after running their other industrial sands.
 
You do not want pool filter sand, it is much less refined than their play sand, and thus more rough. I went into this in detail with a representative of Quikrete a few years back, and he informed me that no sand they produce is as highly refined as their play sand. He said, kids will get sand in their eyes, mouth, swallow it...so they refine play sand after they have thoroughly washed down the machine after running their other industrial sands.
I use PFS in 5 of my tanks, with corys and kuhli loaches, and have had no adverse issues...
 
I use PFS in 5 of my tanks, with corys and kuhli loaches, and have had no adverse issues...

We can only perceive external "issues." But regardless of that, there is no doubt at all but that play sand is more refined and therefore less likely to cause issues. And when one is caring for fish, or any animals, this should be the aim. Which is why I suggest Q's play sand, perhaps out of an abundance of caution.
 
I will get that if I can’t find a dark sand that will work. I really would like dark sand if I can find it though. Does anyone make a safe colored version?
 
Some observations of someone who has gone from pool sand, florite, to aquarium soil, and is now using play sand, QuikCrete brand, as recommended by @Byron.

First pool filter sand has to be highly cleaned and sorted as to size, imagine what would happen if the sand released dirt into the pool, also if not well sorted the pores would fill with the small grains effectively stopping the filtering action. When viewing the two sands in the microscope the play sand looks filthy compared to the pool sand as well the play sand is very rounded. I just rinsed out the pool sand a couple of times before using it in my aquarium. It worked wellish but the plants did not seem to thrive. My pool sand is nearly 100% silica but I can say I noticed that is caused any issues.

Aquarium soil appears to be compressed rock of some sort, it breaks into many sharp pieces. Additional when it breaks down it settles to the bottom. Having cleaned my first attempt with this product out of my 60 gallon tank just yesterday I would have to say I will never use it again.

Black florite looks nice. I have a five gallon pail on my deck, if you wanted it you could have it, but you will have to come and get it. As @Byron mentioned it is very abrasive, I wouldn't use it again. Plus given the price it sure takes a lot of cleaning before it is good in your tank. The fish really don't like the stuff. The black florite sand is slightly magnetic which means grains collect on the impeller drive of some filters if you are not careful. I was very unhappy with this product.

Finally the play sand. Again I am using Quikrete sand, as of yesterday, I suspect given the weight of this product I expect much of it is locally sourced. I collected some natural sand from near Buttle Lake on Vancouver Island but the sand is nearly identical in composition to the playsand, and the play sand was more rounded. It took me about 1.5 hours to clean enough sand, 2-55 pound bags for a 18x48 inch base, the sand is the dirtiest product I have used, but after the cleaning it is quite nice. It is not very dark, I thought it was going to be darker. The play sand isn't very well sorted, and in general Quikrete doesn't provide mesh percentages like some of the other manufacturers do, I would take what they say with a grain of salt. Even cleaned there is a high variation of the grain size compared with the pool sand. All that said the play sand is light but settles fast in the tank, I don't worry about sucking it up my filters, like florite.

I have no experience with epoxy sand, if it is a high quality epoxy and the base grains are inert a high quality product should be inert in the water.

Pool Filter Sand on Left, lightly rinsed, Quikrete play sand on the right, highly washed, missing about 30% of the finest material via the washing processes. I wanted to remove the finest grains to facilitate water movement through the sand.

DSC_2401 (2).JPG


Heavily washed Quikrete Play Sand in tank, 24 hours after adding to tank. All cloudiness is gone after 24 hours. Tank is definitely lighter, my blue stream goby has been digging in it, already moving about 2 cups worth of material, without any issues. Although the grains are angular they have worn edges unlike the manufactured florite and aquarium soil. I like the color far better than pool filter sand. Yes I know the fish in the picture is not a goby :) I don't have a goby picture just yet.

DSC_2390.JPG
 
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