Substrate Questions

[Offelias]

Hi guys,

I'm still researching substrate prior to getting my new 4ft tank to work alongside macro/micro dosing.
I'm planning on it being heavily planted with low tech plants and I'm currently waiting on the bogwood too.
I'm going to be laying it all out prior to setup so that I can be sure of what's going where to avoid tear downs later on.

I've ordered 27kg of eco complete, but I'm still wondering about whether to get another three bags, or to cap with a fine 1-2mm white gravel.
I like the look of a light substrate and I'm thinking that the very front 3" or so will be the gravel, while the eco complete will be further back and capped for the rooted plants.
The plan is to have some dwarf hairgrass carpeting, but I'm not going to carpet the entire footprint, hence why I'm considering gravel capping for aesthetics.

I've also considered how I'd manage water changes with a 4ft, and I'm currently looking at the python no spill or similar to avoid the trek with buckets (I make enough mess bucketing a partial 10 gallon change haha). Further back, the mixing of substrate won't worry me due to the plants covering this anyway.

I was originally thinking of capping with sand but after reading a lot of varying information, I've decided that ill go for the gravel.

So I guess my question is how you would go with siphoning gravel without mixing the visible substrate?
Is it even possible? Equally perhaps using just the one substrate might be the easiest option even if it will cost a bomb!

Many thanks x

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Good questions. I've never considered that substrate question.


I will say that the python concept is a great one. I don't use a "python" as it cost too much. Instead I went "DIY". A light duty length of garden hose, long enough to reach my kitchen sink from the tank EASILY, and my front garden bed of plants EASILY, and the rest is gravy!

For the easy "python" method without a "python", just get a length of hose and purchase a hose connector that will link your hose to your kitchen sink, etc. These are only a dollar to two at the local hardware store. Connect the hose to the sink. And place the other end into the tank. Turn on the water, and watch until all the air bubbles are gone. Once they are gone, turn off the water. When you remove the hose from your kitchen sink faucet, water will be flowing into your sink. You can just let it empty there (weighted down so that it doesn't fall out of the sink) or do what I do... raise the end of the hose above the level of your water and move to wherever you want the water to go... Fish "waste" water is actually EXCELLENT fertilizer for plants, and my impatiens have never looked better! ;-) Anyway, vac as usual, but be careful about sucking up fish (as always)... You can help yourself a bit here by having it empty into a bucket first and just overflow to wherever you choose. Any fish sucked up will be deposited into the bucket, and should be able to hang out in the bucket safely until you are done. I lost one fish by syphoning into the garden directly. Now the bucket works as a safety net - but ironically I've never sucked up another fish since.


When time comes to fill it up again, replace as you did at the beginning. Add sufficient dechlorinator for dechlorinating the ENTIRE tank. If using Prime, it actually isn't that much. Then, I slowly refill with cold tap water, with my heater (fully submerged) running to gently bring the temp back up. This method has sparked my cories to spawn multiple times, and my fish generally seem to enjoy the new colder water entering the tank and will swim around in it while it is coming in.

(This is for general purposes, for those perhaps unfamiliar with how to use a "python" for water changes, not necessarily directed to the OP.)

 

[greenmumma141]

I am in the same situation as you! I am getting a new 4ft tank in a week. Ive decided to go with sand, this tank is mainly for upping my numbers of cories and such. I think that if you are very careful about how far down you stick the vacuum, then you won't mix the underneath gravel with the top. I would worry more about having a different substrate towards the front of your tank, b.c there will be no way to vacuum the line where substrates meet without mixing the two. BUT, if the substrate towards the back will be covered with hairgrass, then you weren't really planning to ever fully vacuum it anyway... BUT (lol) the hairgrass will take some time to fill in, so what will you do in the mean time... hmmm, Im not sure about this one. Maybe someone who has used multiple substrates can help here. There is a thread I saw where someone redid there tank and they have dif. substrates, i will try to find the link and post it here and maybe you can ask them.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

One issue with differing substrates is that sand will usually end up on the bottom eventually, and the gravel will work its way up to the top.

 

[greenmumma141]

Found it! Look to the second page, as that's where the update is.
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/410454-200l-tank-journal/page__st__20

One issue with differing substrates is that sand will usually end up on the bottom eventually, and the gravel will work its way up to the top.

What if the top layer of sand is reallllllly thick, bc Im going to go heavy planted and I want to make sure the roots have something to stick to... or should i not worry about gravel at the bottom? ps3steveo says to use gravel lol

 

[Offelias]

Thanks eaglesaquarium,

The DIY python certainly sounds worth looking into. Non DIY is so expensive and the fixtures aren't really anything special!
I love your idea of syphoning waste water into bedded plants. At the moment, I live in an apartment block and I don't think the guys below will appreciate fish waste dripping through to their balcony. But you never know I'll tell them how they'll end up with super-tomatoes.

I was also wondering about the decolorination. So thanks for the extra advise!
My cories also love the cold water during a change. I intentionally leave it a few degrees below just to let them have their fun while its syphoning back in. Right little characters. They're called the Mötley Crew (peppered cories).

I'm thinking now that I'll go for the lighter gravel at the forefront and capped primarily for cost purposes, as I can't really afford an extra 30kg of eco. I figured if it mixes into each other it'll still be visually acceptable. Besides, I would have some lighter gravel left over to re-top at the visible areas if I decided it was necessary. I guess it's just going to be a case of trial and error being my first seriously considered setup.
(The 10g is heavily planted but doesn't require much input. Everything's thriving without much interference)

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Most plants can take nutrients directly from the water column, so the substrate isn't essential. I used flourite on bottom and topped with sand for my cories. The sand is slowly working its way down...

What if the top layer of sand is reallllllly thick, bc Im going to go heavy planted and I want to make sure the roots have something to stick to... or should i not worry about gravel at the bottom? ps3steveo says to use gravel lol

How thick is "really" thick? The roots aren't that big a deal with sand versus gravel, imho. A plant substrate can help keep the nutrient level more consistent between fert dosing, but the standard dosing method for plants is in the water column any way. You can also use root tabs for some plants, and get the same basic result. From a strictly economic standpoint. I used flourite and playsand. They are mixing. Looking back, I'm wishing I had just gone all sand. Much cheaper, and I like the look of the sand better. But, that's just me.

 

[greenmumma141]

I think i will do just sand, i would be very upset to see gravel coming through, so thanks for the insight

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Sand does comes with its own set of challenges, but watching my cories in the sand is worth everything. I never realized that they would sift the sand through their gills. Its pretty cool to watch.

 

[greenmumma141]

Yep, I'm very excited to have a tank with all sand and a ton of cories lol