Stunted Puffer?

joloco

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hi

i've been reading a bit about stunted puffers - but i'm curious how do you tell when they are stunted? Is there a physical characteristic to look out for or is it a case of a fish very obviously (size wise) in a tank too small for it and saying from that alone that the fish is stunted?

cheers
 
The whole issue of "stunted fish" is far from accepted within the hobby, and the science behing the idea is shaky, at best. Essentially, a stunted fish is one that is relatively small for its age. But just as with humans there are multiple reasons why someone might be small for his age, so it is with fish. While the size of the aquarium may be one factor, diet, genetics, exercise, and so on could also be issues as well. In lab experiments, only certain types of fish "stunt" when overcrowded in tanks, goldfish being one example. Other fish, such as cichlids, will reach full size regardless. I am not aware of any convincing evidence that pufferfish stunt in aquaria. Poor water quality and the absence of adequate salinity (for brackish water species) is far more of an issue.

Regardless, you should try and get the right size aquarium for your fish. For most puffers this isn't very difficult. The "dwarf" species will be happy with a 20 gallon tank, something around 30-40 gallons will suit a group of South American puffers, and the predatory pufferfish like Tetraodon suvatii would work nicely in such a tank, too. Anything from 40 gallons upwards could be used safely for things like green spotted puffers or one of the other 10-15 cm species. f you're after one of the big puffers like Tetraodon lineatus or T. mbu, the obviously you'll need an even larger aquarium.

Cheers, Neale

i've been reading a bit about stunted puffers - but i'm curious how do you tell when they are stunted? Is there a physical characteristic to look out for or is it a case of a fish very obviously (size wise) in a tank too small for it and saying from that alone that the fish is stunted?
 
yes i am aware of tank factors and so on
and obviously no one would 'try' to keep their fish in a tank smaller than what it required if they intended to look after it properly or purposely look for one that was stunted - but this isn't really what i was getting at

i was curious as to the stunting as an occurance and the physical characteristics of it as an idea which is completely separate from any fish i may wish to or do already own.
i read a post where someone ventured an opinion on someone's puffer that it was obviously stunted and i wondered in the abscence of knowledge as to its age and the fact that the tank size seemed reasonable - how they could tell...?

i'll try to find the post again - so that you can read it
 
http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showto...=stunted+puffer

okay here it is - now a four foot tank may be too small but what does fella mean when he says that you can see that the fish is stunted? Is it something to do with body shape?

(and just incase any one is wondering i do not have one of these fish and neither am i considering getting one - i'm just interested)
 
I'm not quite sure what Fella is getting at. It doesn't look stunted to me. Maximum size in the wild is 40 cm, and if it is already 11 inches (28 cm) in 3 years, then it sounds as if it has grown fairly briskly. But I've not kept this species, and will bow to the better knowledge of those who have.

The issue with stunting is that experimental evidence doesn't support the assumption that fish stunt in small tanks. There was a nice article about this in TFH magazine last year that reported how water changes -- not aquarium size -- are the key. They massively overstocked tanks containing things like discus and oscars, but performed complete water changes daily. Result: fully grown, healthy fish. Is this a good way to keep fish? Probably not, but it does make it clear that fish grow to their maximum size irrespective of the aquarium size if the water quality and diet provided are adequate. My own experiences of laboratory species such as Clarias catfish and tilapias supprts their point, as I have seen plenty of big fish in small tanks. The species that stunt are usually cyprinids (goldfish, for example) which have a very specific set of reactions to metabolites produced by other members of their species kept in close proximity.

So, while I don't advocate keeping fish in tanks too small for them, it isn't because of stunting. The issue is water quality, and the bigger the tank, the better the water quality will be. If you have to keep a fish in a tank a bit smaller than would be optimal, then under some circumstances you may be able to get away with it by increasing things like water changes. But still, that's a workaround rather than a recommendation.

Cheers, Neale

okay here it is - now a four foot tank may be too small but what does fella mean when he says that you can see that the fish is stunted? Is it something to do with body shape?
 
From my own experience, a fahaka at 11 inches long in 3 years is either in a tank with poor water quality or a tank too small. I got mine at around 12" and it is nearer 15 now, and I have had him around 6 months. His body shape is very different from that fish. On that fish the back is more arched than on my own, and that one is certainly stockier. Without a true side by side comparison it would be difficult to tell though.

From those that have kept them from a young age, the average growing size (after reaching a saleable stage for shops at least) is around an inch a month for the first 12 months, and that is a guideline I've heard given from 2 seperate unlinked sources, so I am willing to more than believe it.

In Mbu puffers kept in tanks too small, you can see from their tails when they look as though they've been in conditions too small. The tail will be scrunched up and inflexbile from the bigger puffers I've seen kept in smaller tanks.
 
ahhhh ok, thanks for that

do you think then that the fish will retain that body shape for life - or would he/she become more of a natural shape over time in better conditions?
 
ahhhh ok, thanks for that

do you think then that the fish will retain that body shape for life - or would he/she become more of a natural shape over time in better conditions?


I think science has shown with some goldfish that once they're moved from a small environment, once placed in a larger one they grow at a rapid rate, but I couldn't cite where exactly that is from.

As for puffers, who could say? No one really knows enough about these fish, and I don't think much research will have been done one them with regards to stunting, and larger environments.
 
I think science has shown with some goldfish that once they're moved from a small environment, once placed in a larger one they grow at a rapid rate, but I couldn't cite where exactly that is from.
I've heard this too, including being told about while at university by people researching fish farming. Fish grow continuously, although faster when young. They are growing in size until the day they die. This is obviously different to birds and mammals, which tend to get to a certain size at sexual maturity, then stop growing. Reptiles, on the other hand, grow continuously as well. Anyway, this means that if a fish is transferred to an environment where it can only grow slowly (e.g., little food) to one where it can grow rapidly (e.g., more food) it will "seem" to start growing again because its growth rate will increase dramatically.

With cyprinids -- like goldfish -- and some salmonids -- like trout -- there is a feedback system between individuals. I'm not sure if it has evolved for a good reason, or is merely an accidental thing that ends up being significant in fish farms and aquaria. Anyway, the biggest fish produces more chemicals (called metabolites) than the smaller fish, and these chemicals have more effect on the smaller fishes than the bigger ones. They slow down growth. So the bigger fish keeps getting bigger, but the smaller fish grow much more slowly. For fish farmers, the problem is ending up with a pond of fishes of which one specimen is big and all the others are small. What farmers want is lots of similar sized fishes they can sell easily. Tilapia don't do this, but trout and carp do (if I recall correctly).

The "just so" story is that this mechanism allows the dominant fish to stay the biggest, which is a good thing for the dominant fish. In the wild of course the sheer volumes of water dilute these metabolites so they don't usually have a very great effect, so a school of trout or carp can all reach a good size, which is important for their social behaviour and safety-in-numbers (a school of fish consisting of one big fish and a hundred tiny fish would be pointless!). But there might be just enough effect that it has a subtle, but significant, impact over time, giving the slightly bigger dominant fish access to more food, better mates, better hiding places, etc. In a pond (or aquarium) the dilution factor is so small that the metabolites build up and slow down growth much more significantly.

A single goldfish (say) kept in a very small bowl or tank, and given few water changes, absorbs its own metabolites, and these have the effect of slowing down its growth rate, as if it was sharing a pond with another big goldfish. Hence goldfish seeming to "grow" to the size of the tank they're kept in, especially if they are kept really badly.
As for puffers, who could say? No one really knows enough about these fish, and I don't think much research will have been done one them with regards to stunting, and larger environments.
Agreed, I'm not aware of any such work. My gut feeling is that they don't stunt in the same way as salmonids or cyprinids because they aren't schooling fish and they are very distantly related to the fishes for which the effect has been described. On the other hand, I have no doubt that puffers kept in too-small tanks get unhealthy, and under such conditions their growth rate may be compromised and certainly their sensitivity to disease will be greater.

Cheers, Neale
 

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