Stumped as to problem (resolved)

[itiwhetu]

So the volume of water is 40 gallons I think. Which can make a big difference when adding meds etc. to your system

 

[CassCats]

So the volume of water is 40 gallons I think. Which can make a big difference when adding meds etc. to your system

I dosed 3 tablespoons of fluval aquarium salt.
Its been recommended on here to do 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons apparently, but my Fluval box says 1 per 10 gallons. I opted for the 3 so still under the dosage recommended on either, to start off with.

Fish went ballistic as soon as the salt was added.


Have not dosed anything else as of yet, just salt since water change and temperature adjustment failed.

I'm also not an idiot, I read the boxes and labels and carefully calculate how much is dosed per gallon. Usually im used to half dosing since I keep mostly scaleless fish, but not in this tank, yet I still under dosed to be safe. Gave it a 30g dosage of salt, not even 40.

 

[itiwhetu]

I know nothing about meds these days. Only that you need to be careful that you know your exact water quantity and dose according to the instructions.

 

[CassCats]

And retested water, again. Photo showing the results.

 

[Colin_T]

Did you add anything during the 2 weeks before this started?

What happened 5 days ago just before this started?
Did you have people over, do some cleaning, were the birds out and flying around the room with the fish in?

I doubt this is a disease. I would say the fish were startled by something and freaked out. Perhaps someone knocked their container, maybe a bird landed on it. I would just leave them for a bit and only do a small water change once a week for a few weeks. Let them settle down and recover.

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Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.

In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.

At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.

 

[CassCats]

My answers to your questions are going to be in bold since there's several.

Did you add anything during the 2 weeks before this started?
I switched out a plastic container used to hold their filter media, switched to a glass jar that has been used for green water cultures prior, just rinsed and cleaned with tap water no soaps. Same media used inside this filter, nothing new otherwise.


What happened 5 days ago just before this started?
they were totally normal, begging for food anytime ive stopped by and seen them.

Did you have people over, do some cleaning, were the birds out and flying around the room with the fish in?
No one over, we are still in covid lockdown here. Been cooped up at home as well due to dislocating my ankle. Birds are in the same room as the fish, but have not been let out near the tank. They stayed on their cagetop playground while out. One is flightless due to problems with one wing and the other stays where that one is.

I doubt this is a disease. I would say the fish were startled by something and freaked out. Perhaps someone knocked their container, maybe a bird landed on it. I would just leave them for a bit and only do a small water change once a week for a few weeks. Let them settle down and recover.
a possibility, though ive been home and usually sit in this room since ive been resting my ankle. No one has bothered the container at all that ive seen. My 5 year old interacts with them with supervision and asks before doing anything for them (feeding, letting them nibble fingers after he washes his hands first).
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Stress from tank lights coming on when the room is dark can be an issue. Fish don't have eyelids and don't tolerate going from complete dark to bright light (or vice versa) instantly.
I usually dont turn the lights on until noon, so it takes lots of time for there to be ambient light from the window before lights on. And I wait a half hour after turning their lights off before turning the room lights off as well.

In the morning open the curtains or turn the room light on at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the tank light on. This will reduce the stress on the fish and they won't go from a dark tank to a bright tank instantly.

At night turn the room light on and then turn the tank light off. Wait at least 30 minutes (or more) before turning the room light out. This allows the fish to settle down for the night instead of going from a brightly lit tank to complete darkness instantly.

 

[CassCats]

Also @Colin_T the guppies are having eye issues, started along with the behavior change.

And a nerite capsized tonight and stopped moving. I did lose a nerite 2 weeks ago, but ive had them for months so didn't think much of it.

I dont think its stressed behavior, I think there's something going very very wrong and I just don't know what.

 

[Ch4rlie]

This is confusing as I cannot think of much that’s not already been mentioned.

So just to recap -

@40 gal plastic tote
Sponge filtration
Fake plants
Unglazed terracotta pots
Small amount substrate

2 young/juvenile goldfish
3 guppies
1 platy

various snails, possible loss of 1 nertite so far

Symptom of redding around eyes
Lethargy
Loss of appetite I think can be included

treatment of salt, fish shows reaction to salt

Large water changes
API dechlorinator used

I can only surmise if we discount any possible contamination from the plastic tote or fake plants that this points to either a bacterial issue more than anything or maybe possible water issues of some sort.

If it was water supply issue then your other tanks would start showing same issue and it’s just this particular tank.
So am discounting that for now.

But why and how?

Bacterial?
Contamination?
Leaching from plastics or decor?
Tank equipment like air pump pumping something through sponge filter?
Possible leak from somewhere above and dripping something into the tank?
Don’t know if you have any kids or not but kids adding stuff to tank?

Am trying to think of everything that’s probably very unlikely but sometimes suggestions like that will pop a light bulb in your head and go hang on...maybe...

Sorry, not much help here, will keep thinking over this one but it has me stumped as well

Has there been any changes at all in fish behaviour or symptoms since last message at all?

 

[Colin_T]

What's the pH and GH?

Most eye problems are caused by poor water quality or physical injury. This allows bacteria into the eye and causes it to swell up. Clean water and salt is usually the best treatment,

 

[Ch4rlie]

What's the pH and GH?

Most eye problems are caused by poor water quality or physical injury. This allows bacteria into the eye and causes it to swell up. Clean water and salt is usually the best treatment,

Tank size: 50 gallons
Water results:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20
GH 180
KH 40
pH 8

While I do generally agree that poor water quality is a factor in illnesses but NCaquatics is a experienced keeper and is no fool when it comes to good fishkeeping practices so I doubt it’s poor water quality on her part.

However it may be something in the water in that tote that’s causing the issues, like copper or a heavy metal, something like that as I am no scientist.

 

[mbsqw1d]

While I do generally agree that poor water quality is a factor in illnesses but NCaquatics is a experienced keeper and is no fool when it comes to good fishkeeping practices so I doubt it’s poor water quality on her part.

However it may be something in the water in that tote that’s causing the issues, like copper or a heavy metal, something like that as I am no scientist.

I was wondering about the tote.. be good to know the grade of plastic. But then NC has used the same make for breeding her cories.. perhaps she didnt heat the water with the cories and this one is being heated. Heat with plastic does cause them to leach.

 

[Ch4rlie]

I was wondering about the tote.. be good to know the grade of plastic. But then NC has used the same make for breeding her cories.. perhaps she didnt heat the water with the cories and this one is being heated. Heat with plastic does cause them to leach.

mhmm, fairly decent reasonings, heat with plastic does cause some things to break down and thus making the plastic leach certain containments.

Wonder if the heater is resting on the plastic tote and melting it a bit maybe?

Also be interesting to hear if any of the other plastic totes are being heated as well or not.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I was wondering about the tote.. be good to know the grade of plastic. But then NC has used the same make for breeding her cories.. perhaps she didnt heat the water with the cories and this one is being heated. Heat with plastic does cause them to leach.

mhmm, fairly decent reasonings, heat with plastic does cause some things to break down and thus making the plastic leach certain containments.

Wonder if the heater is resting on the plastic tote and melting it a bit maybe?

Also be interesting to hear if any of the other plastic totes are being heated as well or not.

Since she usually uses these totes for cories, and this is her goldfish tote, I imagine she usually heats the cories ones.

I know that this one was unheated until after this illness started though. She mentioned here that she only added the heater in case they were acting this way because they were feeling too cold, so I think that debunks the heating problem.

I might wonder whether the manufacturer of the tote has changed the composition, or the way they treat the plastic, but even then I'm doubtful since it's relatively new, the fish were doing fine, and then all of them came down like this so suddenly, at the same time. If it were the tote leeching, I'd expect it to begin more slowly, you know? Or much later, not two months or so into a coldwater set up.

 

[mbsqw1d]

Since she usually uses these totes for cories, and this is her goldfish tote, I imagine she usually heats the cories ones.

I know that this one was unheated until after this illness started though. She mentioned here that she only added the heater in case they were acting this way because they were feeling too cold, so I think that debunks the heating problem.

I might wonder whether the manufacturer of the tote has changed the composition, or the way they treat the plastic, but even then I'm doubtful since it's relatively new, the fish were doing fine, and then all of them came down like this so suddenly, at the same time. If it were the tote leeching, I'd expect it to begin more slowly, you know? Or much later, not two months or so into a coldwater set up.

Yep..

The only other unpredictable factor is the 5 year old! I know my two are always up to stuff and can never have eyes on them 24/7! I am by no means questioning NC's parenting or the behaviour of her child, just, ya know how kids are! Have they put anything in the tote?

 

[utahfish]

I have no idea what's going on with your fish though a few observations.
I've never seen or heard of anyone successfully keeping fish in a plastic tote for an extended amount of time, if so the plastic should be good safe which most industrial storage totes are not.

Secondly the desk lamp above the tote I assume is warm which against the plastic tote could warm the plastic to a point it could possibly leech chemicals into the water.

Third. Goldfish and tropical fish don't belong in the same tank. Goldfish are cold water fish and guppies and platys are tropical fish.

While people have had success with bare bottom tanks in glass tanks bare bottom tanks can be unsettling for fish as it's unnatural and startling to them. While yours isn't totally bare bottom it's sparce and spotty. Alot goes on in the substrate from gas exchange and nitrification processes,plus adding a layer of substrate will create another barrier between fish and plastic.

Fish do best in an environment that most closely replicates the natural habitat they have evolved to thrive in. Fish didn't evolve to live in plastic. Plastic is foreign to them the less plastic in their environment the better. Now they didn't evolve to live in a glass box in my basement either and glass is more inert and whether plastic or glass one can still attempt to re create a natural habitat.

Add more substrate,increase oxygen by increasing flow. If using lamp try and get a bulb that doesn't put off as much heat. Separate gold fish from tropical fish. Good luck.