Strange Khuli Disease Or Killer Loach?

[mikev]

Here is a puzzling situation, perhaps someone has an idea what could have happened.

Chronology:

Sunday 10 days ago LFS got a shipment of 100 of khulis, who seemed to be healthy.
Thursday 7 days ago I took eight of them.
By Saturday night (5 days ago) all eight were dead (no symptoms, gills did not seem inflamed, simply rolled over and died.)

(I assumed that this was a just shipping damage---happens with khulis---and got two khulis from another store, putting them into the now empty tank --- they are still doing fine).

Today I went to check on what happened with the LFS and what I saw does not make sense.

99 of the khulis are dead. Additionally, about 10 black khulis that LHS had for a while (not the same shipment) and put into the same tank, are dead.

Still alive:

3 black khulis escaped to other tanks (LFS has an array of 10g tanks connected together) -- these seem to be fine.

1 loach from the last shipment.

Now, this is one strange loach; it is obviously a loach but not a khuli. Looking through all pix i could fine (and entire loach.com), it seems that it is a Schistura, but I could not find a matching species. (it is a silver loach, fairly slim, about 2", relatively large fins, light stripes). The closest match are the mystery loaches
shown here
http/www.loaches.com/species_pages/schistura_sp_3.html
but it is a similar, not the same species.

Now, I'm really puzzled; this does not make sense.

Possible explanations (none good):

1. Shipping damage (lack of oxigen, ammonia) --> No, does not explain dead black khulis.
2. Some (very fast and fatal) bacterial or viral infection --> No, does not explain escaped black khulis who looked fine; also there was a plenty of other fish in connected tanks -- all ok, according to LFS (I trust the owner of the store on this.). And my two new khulis are ok (5 days in water which was changed 50%).

These explanation don't add up. Now, for crazy explanations that do:

3. A "contact" infection: does not really spread through water, but only through body contact (khulis touch each other a lot, obviously, and LFS had them all in a 10g tank, so there was lots of touching). ---> I never heard about anything like this.
4. A killer loach?: this is totally crazy, but may it be that this strange survivor actually generates something very toxic to khulis/other fish? --> Is something like this possible?

Any ideas what this could be?

(Part of the reason for asking: I'm obviously quite worried about my fish that could have been infected--not that I can do anything good now(?); but also I'm getting curious about the mystery loach. The problem that I'm obviously afraid of killing my fish and there is no isolation tank right now.... A scientist probably would have placed this guy together with a khuli to see what happens, but I would not do this...he might a murderer or a carrier of a fatal disease...)

 

[Teelie]

All I know is the past few seasons have been bad for Kuhlis and a large majority of the ones caught and shipped have been dying sometimes for mysterious reasons. My guess is there is some kind of parasite or viral outbreak going on.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

This type of thing is very common in lfs, the biggest loses experienced by lfs's in fish are in the transport process, its mostly down to the conditions the fish have to live through while being transported across the country. My main lfs lost 50guppys the other day. A larger lfs in another town lost 245 common/sailfin plecs. Another lfs lost 500 cardinal tetras etc...
Mostly what kills these fish is stress, ammonia build up, temperature fluctuations, overcrowding and lack of oxygen in their transport bags- just because they survive the trip to the lfs's, they can still die of shock from going from extremely poor conditions to good ones almost instantly.
Which is why its always a good thing to ask your lfs about how long the fish you are about to buy has been in the shop for, as the chances are if its survived more than 4days in their tanks its got over the worst of its stresses and shock, alternatively its not a good idea to buy fish that have only arrived in the lfs tanks that day as they'll be highly stressed out even if you acclimatise them slowely to your tank.

I havn't a clue what your mystery loach is, but i wouldn't worry about your khulis if they are ok at current- just keep an eye on them, what are you feeding them currently ?

 

[mikev]

Thank you,

This type of thing is very common in lfs, the biggest loses experienced by lfs's in fish are in the transport process, its mostly down to the conditions the fish have to live through while being transported across the country.

Nope, it is not transit, and this why I asked/posted. LFS also lost those black khulis which were at the store for two months and were perfectly healthy before (he put new khulis in the same tank) and all died in a week. Infection/Strong Toxin in water/Killer loach are possibilities.

I havn't a clue what your mystery loach is, but i wouldn't worry about your khulis if they are ok at current- just keep an eye on them, what are you feeding them currently ?

Alternating between shrimp pellets and tetramin wafers, finally saw them eating one now(!). Watching them very closely. So far they are very active and I'm almost on day 6!. Will do another 50% water change later today to clear the possible residual toxin and salt (Salt seems to stimulate immune system, so I put some, but it is time to get rid of it before it irritates them.) . Fortunately I have a similar much larger tank so big water changes are safe. Routine stuff.

 

[nashnut]

I went thru several shipments of kuhlis without much luck. One arrived with one dead and two almost dead. They lasted a couple hours. Whatever it was also killed the other loach in the quarantine area. The next shipment had 6 very slow moving fish which died off within 48 hours. The next shipment included 6 black kuhlis and 6 regular kuhlis. Three of the regular kuhlis died without any fanfare and I would just find a body here and there. Three made if fine and are now getting fat!! The black ones looked great but then started shedding their skins and died one by one. After three deaths I tossed in an Indian Almond Leaf which seemed to stop the deaths. I had one black with it's skin or slim layer I guess just starting to peel. It reversed and I ended up with two fat black kuhlis. The loses were spread over a week.

About three weeks ago I got a sale notice from Live Aquria and they had black kuhlis on sale. I decided to try again since I knew that those fish had been in their tanks for about two months. They (10) arrived along with three yo yo's. Everyone looked healthy. One black kuhli appeared a bit slower than the others. I figured if I got a bunch I might manage to save a couple to transfer over to the other tank. Well here we are about three weeks down the line and I've got a total of 9 black kuhlis and 3 yo yo's from Live Aquria still going strong and looking healthy. Apparently only one died and it did not affect any of the others.

I also asked another shipper about getting some kuhlis and he said that he received some in but won't sell them because he couldn't stop them from dying. He was losing them daily.

 

[mikev]

Update: my new two seem to be ok (but they are not a "new shipment": lfs had them for three weeks.)

I asked the store to get more; they got 8 and all died in the store within three days. No obvious reasons.

I also asked another shipper about getting some kuhlis and he said that he received some in but won't sell them because he couldn't stop them from dying. He was losing them daily.

This is what my lfs guy said. Ok, I asked another one.

The real strange thing about khulis is that once they "settle" in your tank (survive for a week), they seem to be very stable.

 

[nashnut]

Thank goodness. My three have really grown and packed on some pounds. I did notice that they have become suddenly shy lately. It started with one black kuhli last week but now they are all hiding most of the time.

 

[mikev]

Thanks!

Loaches seem to have moods... (I'm biased but it feels like they are more sophisticated than other fish).

One observation from watching mine: Larger/fatter khulis are generally more lazy than small/thin. Hide more, swim less. Possibly means that we are overfeeding them (I have no idea how much food they really need.)

 

[Teelie]

Me either. I feed mine every few days like the other tanks and when I have seen them, I've noticed my big female has gotten quite big, as have one or two others. The rest are still a little on the thin side, though not super models by any means.

 

[nashnut]

My black kuhlis have suddenly become very unsocialable and are rarely seen. The regular kuhlis are out all the time. The blacks used to be out but suddenly the larger of the pair started hiding more and now you rarely see either one of them.

The blacks in my other tank are out all the time.

 

[Teelie]

It could be the weather changes too. I don't know how sensitive Black Kuhlis are but I know regular Kuhlis can sense when it's about to rain from the barometric pressure changes.

 

[mikev]

It could be the weather changes too. I don't know how sensitive Black Kuhlis are but I know regular Kuhlis can sense when it's about to rain from the barometric pressure changes.

Regular -- yes, especially smaller/thinner ones. Lots of swimming here before rain. Blacks -- no noticeable reaction (but they don't swim much anyway).