Stocking top levels

[Beastije]

So, with my hatchetfish constantly jumping out (I lost another one tonight, through a 0,5cm wide opening,..grr) I am now down to 6 hatchetfish.
I am not planning on buying more hatchetfish, but am cautiously trying to select what else would work on the top levels. It is a 360liters 120x50x60cm

I have 14 corydoras sterbai, 2 bamboo shrimp and 5 tylomelania snails, so the bottom is covered enough.
I have 35ish ember tetras, am getting 10 more today to cover the losses I have had and because even in a group of 40, they sometimes get lost in the tank.
I am also getting the 10 otocinclus I have been talking about, didnt clean the glass from algae, did a big water change, had no recent deaths or changes, tank has been running for years but with the current wood and plants and fish over 6 months now, so I should be all good


Initially I thought I would get some pencilfish for the top layer, but I am not sure if my water is "clean" enough, I am having my doubts because hey, I thought I was doing ok, and then the cory was sick, so who knows. Even though the eheim 2217 is more than enough capacity and I have it turned down to 50% of the flow (and the flow is targeted to the middle of the tank and bottom, for the bamboo shrimp, nothing goes to the surface)
So maybe a more hardy fish, I was thinking maybe a honey gourami would work, a nice pair, though a pair may also get lost on the surface but it could work even now with the remaining hatchetfish perhaps.
Or I could go with my previous plan, a school of rummynose tetras, like 20 to make them feel comfortable and not stress the embers and leave the surface completely alone.
Which way would you go?
Thanks

 

[Wills]

This sounds like an awesome tank! If you are sticking to nano fish like your Embers I would get them in a huge school of like 100! Then for your top level dilemma check out Clown Killi Fish and Sparlking Gourami. Large groups of the two would look amazing!

Please post some pics!

Wills

 

[Beastije]

An older picture, at this moment I dont have the lotus, that was eaten, the two anubias are a bit more bigger and there is a lot less hornwort at this moment.

I dont have pH for either the suggested fish, I am closer to 7,2 and my temp is usually at 26°C. so I have to be careful about what I add.
Are you against the honey gourami?

 

[Lynnzer]

I just love the Halfbeak and your size tank is ideal. You must know that the escapee problem exists for just about every top level fish. The best way to prevent, or at least minimize this is to have a good number of floating plants.
I've even lost Zebra Danios, Chili Rasboras and Otos. Oh and one of a matched pair of endlers.
As I'm aquascaped with hardscape sticking above water level I can't place a lid on the tank, so mentioning this on forum brought out the useful alternative of keeping the water level lower. It seems to have worked so far.

 

[Beastije]

I just love the Halfbeak and your size tank is ideal. You must know that the escapee problem exists for just about every top level fish. The best way to prevent, or at least minimize this is to have a good number of floating plants.
I've even lost Zebra Danios, Chili Rasboras and Otos. Oh and one of a matched pair of endlers.
As I'm aquascaped with hardscape sticking above water level I can't place a lid on the tank, so mentioning this on forum brought out the useful alternative of keeping the water level lower. It seems to have worked so far.

Everyone said the hatchetfish jump and I always assumed the issue is the floating plants, the lids, the tankmates so I did what I could to minimize.
Half or more of my surface are a combo of floating plants, cryptocoryne leaves, hornwort, limnobium, I am almost at the point where more of the surface than should be covered is covered, I scoop out or move down regularly.
I have very mild tankmates (embers, not nipping, not quick fish, not aggressive,...). I dont have surface water flow and I have a TIGHT fitting lid. I didnt close the lid 0,5cm, there is also underwater bar under the lid, so the hole was like 3cm long and 0,5cm wide. Still the fish jumped out, during the night when nothing happens, the room was silent,...

So none of the preventive measures I took worked as I expected them so not going to attempt hatchetfish again, and everyone was right )


I am super interested in the pencilfish, am trying to read more about them

 

[nik_n]

I agree with the previous comment, first you should identify the reason why they jump out and how to solve it. Floating plants would help but the best way is to ensure the cover has no holes or that they are at least properly covered.

In terms of stoking, I like the gourami idea. You could get a bigger group of both honey and sparkling gouramis. An alternative to gouramis would be the paradise fish. In my experience I never had a problem with them jumping out. Killifish are known jumpers, even more so then the hatchet fish. Anyone one of those would be a good fit provided that you have a good cover over the tank.

 

[Beastije]

I just love the Halfbeak and your size tank is ideal. You must know that the escapee problem exists for just about every top level fish. The best way to prevent, or at least minimize this is to have a good number of floating plants.
I've even lost Zebra Danios, Chili Rasboras and Otos. Oh and one of a matched pair of endlers.
As I'm aquascaped with hardscape sticking above water level I can't place a lid on the tank, so mentioning this on forum brought out the useful alternative of keeping the water level lower. It seems to have worked so far.

BTW which halfbeak? While they are all Hemiramphidae they are all different latin names and boy they are large. Will go check some info on them

 

[Beastije]

Ah, halfbeaks are not for me, shy, easily startled (and I have a tank in the middle of the room and the roomba tends to make thumps to the stand - which leaves the hatchetfish cool, no jumping at those moments) and it needs t be specifically fed and that is not possible with ember tetras, they would eat everything so much they could burst. Even the hatchetfish, which are not very bright food wise, are sometimes a challenge and basically only do dried food, maybe a bit of live one, but it takes them forever to notice it. It does not take the embers long at all, which makes it difficult.

 

[Colin_T]

You need better coverglass if fish are jumping out. Or block the gaps up with something.

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How do you turn the lights off at night?
If you just turn the tank light off and the room is dark, the fish won't settle down well for the night and will jump when they are spooked by real or imagined things.

At night, turn the room light on before turning the tank light off. Wait 30 minutes or more before turning the room light out. This gives the fish a chance to settle down and get use to the dimmer conditions before it gets really dark.

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Pencilfish are easy to keep. They just need slow water, small foods (preferably live and frozen), and peaceful tank mates.

 

[Beastije]

You need better coverglass if fish are jumping out. Or block the gaps up with something.

-------------------
How do you turn the lights off at night?
If you just turn the tank light off and the room is dark, the fish won't settle down well for the night and will jump when they are spooked by real or imagined things.

At night, turn the room light on before turning the tank light off. Wait 30 minutes or more before turning the room light out. This gives the fish a chance to settle down and get use to the dimmer conditions before it gets really dark.

-------------------
Pencilfish are easy to keep. They just need slow water, small foods (preferably live and frozen), and peaceful tank mates.

I do have a tight fitting glass, I just didnt close it all the way after a water change, as I said, 0,5cm and I am not exaggerating. I turn off the lights while keeping room or hallway lights on, so that should be ok. But obviously something isnt.
As I said there is a small panel on each side of the tank of glass above the surface, under the lid. Found hatchetfish dead there as well. They dont jump up right away, they must jump out in the middle of the night. Everyone has experience with hatchet fish jumping out through the smallest of holes, no matter the plants, no matter the lights. Maybe the fish is just not meant for tank keeping. As I said, learnt my lesson.

Regarding the pencilfish, are they better at finding live food than the hatchetfish? I feed with frozen cyclops, frozen daphnia, and live mosquito larvae of all sizes, since I fish them out from my pond, but the hatchetfish are just aargh. I feed a bit of dry food to distract the tetras, last time I dropped the cup filled with mosquito larvae to the tank, it went to the bottom (for corydoras), lot of them swam on the top, there was a nice layer of static larvae all around the hatchetfish and they were just standing still, looking around all the squirming and then were overrun with the frenzied tetra. Not even sure if they managed to eat at least one of the larvae. The frozen food is even worse, because even if I carefully drip squirt it right at the hatchetfish, it goes bellow the surface, the fish gets scared of the dripping and before they manage to notice food, the tetras are swarming at it, despite my distractions of placing the dry and frozen food in different locations of the tank...

I am super surprised the hatchetfish didnt die of hunger yet, they only eat the dried food I provide it seems, best success I have with dried artemia in larger clumps, that has a chance of getting eaten.

But given what all I have tried with hatchetfish, I should have zero issues with pencilfish then )

 

[Beastije]

I want to revisit this a bit.
I read on the pencilfish and I am not sold on them that much, they seem like particularly aggressive feeders and go out of their ways to destroy eggs, correct?
Same about the honey gourami, attacking a lot of things, not recommended for shrimp, so I would be cautious about having it in a tank with a bamboo shrimp, what if it tried to eat its fans.

My initial idea with this tank was that maybe the corydoras would breed without special care, same for the embers, I dont have the pH for them, but it is densely planted, so could happen. Wouldnt want to have a fish that would spoil this.
Not sure if due to reducing the temp, but my corydoras are lately so active all over the tank, nosing around all the plants, the top levels, they are super cute, now they spend some time chasing the otocinclus and each other and do some glass surfing, am really happy about that.
Week one of the otocinclus, no losses, they are all super curious, sucking on everything in sight, chasing each other, hanging near one another on the glass that I left full of algae for them (makes for a bad pictures, but they seem happy).
I was maybe considering, if they survive the two month mark, I might get another 10, to have a bigger shoal for them to have more fun. I feed vegetables anyway every other day, fed a frozen green bean yesterday, saw one grazing on it too.

At this moment I have
6 hatchetfish
50 ember tetras
10 otocinclus
14 sterbai corydoras
2 bamboo shrimp
5 tylomelania snails.


So I guess the only way to go for me would be to perhaps increase the otocinclus numbers, or the ember tetras?
I was also considering like 20 rummynose tetras, as a larger fish for the middle, but not sure, I read they scare easily and since my tank is in the middle of the room it may be a dealbreaker

I will have a break now, not add anything for few months anyway, to make sure everything is stable and working, and maybe add something more in october, which would be a year mark for this tank (sans otocinclus).