Stocking a new tank

[Ferg42995]

This is my first post so I'm excited to have found this forum! A little bit of background. I grew up with a tropical tank, had one in college and the first few years of marriage. Then didn't have anything for about 10 years. Then I had a saltwater tank for about 5 years. And haven't had any tank for the past 9 years. So I'm kind of new back into Tropical. I have a 44g tank and have been cycling it for 6 days. We will have the water tested on Saturday and hopefully be able to bring home our first few fish. What I would like your opinion on is what I have selected for the tank once it is fully stalked. Do you seen any concerns? Can fish do OK in a school of 3 instead of more? I hope so as we would like to have a larger variety of fish. Here's the hopeful plan for once it is fully stocked:
3 Strawberry Skirt Tetras
2 Blueberry Skirt Tetras (I assume the Strawberry and Blueberry will school together?)
3 Glass Bloodfin Tetras
3 Harlequin Rasboras
3 Cardinal Tetras
1 Cory Catfish
1 African Dwarf Frog
1 Shrimp (either Red Cherry, Red Rili, Blue Velvet, or Blue Pearl)
2 Dwarf Guarami (Can I get 1 Neon Blue and 1 Flame and they get along?)
5 Ember Tetra
1 Dalmation Lyretail Molly
1 Balloon Belly Molly
3 Zebra Danos
When I add up their adult inches, it equals 43. I used an online calculator and it said I was at 102% capacity if all are fully grown at the same time.

Thoughts? Thank you!

 

[itiwhetu]

Less fish species, bigger schools

 

[AilyNC]

You've tetra and molly in the list. What's your water hardness?

Also checkout recommendations for group sizing. Cory need 4-6 for example. I double check my pH, hardness & tank dimensions against the fish profiles on SimplyFish.com - it's a evidence based website.

I think frog would be advised against as it can't compete with the fish for food. I think @essjay posted about this before

 

[Wills]

Hi welcome to the forum

Before adding some fish I would recommend reading a couple of articles on here about the nitrogen cycle and fishless cycling. It takes a bit longer than the 'traditional' route which we call a fish in cycle but its an easier process and much safer. I bet when you have set tanks up in the past like this you have had a few issues in the first 6 weeks?

In terms of stocking as mentioned above it is important to know your water hardness - if you dont have a test kit you can check on your local water company website which should give you a reading in GH or ppm. Keeping fish suited to your water is often better all round as it gives them a better quality of life, longer lifespan and just makes a tank less stressful for us as owners as you are keeping them in the best possible situation.

When thinking of stocking schooling fish you have to remember in the wild they are found in schools of hundreds if not thousands so when we keep them in our tank it is important to replicate this best we can in our tanks. To do this we keep them in as bigger groups as possible to replicate that - if you imagine how many each fish can see in their line of sight, in a group of 3 its not many if any, in 6 they could see multiple fish most of the time, 10 it would be nearly all the time. When schooling fish cant see their own kind around - either visually or through hormones released in the water or through their electric signals they get stressed out and become more prone to disease as their instincts are telling them there is danger around.

If you want variety of colour I bet we can work out a combination of fish that will work for you Let us know your water hardness first and then we can give some suggestions

Wills

 

[Essjay]

Re the frog, they should not be kept in tanks with fish. If you want a frog, it would be better to get a small tank just for frog(s)

Frogs are almost blind and find their food by smell. By the time they find where the food was, the fish will have eaten it all.
Frogs are almost blind and can mistake a fish for food, resulting in fish with nipped fins. This happened to my betta when I once put two frogs in the same tank.
Frogs are sensitive to water conditions. If the fish every get sick, they cannot be medicated with a frog in the same tank.

 

[FishBearer9845]

Sorry to be that person, but I wouldn't be stocking it until the tank has cycled. I highly imagine the water will come back 'fine' because nothing has happened to it.
There's a brilliant guide on here for cycling tanks.
Doing a fish in cycle (which is what you will end up doing) is dangerous for the fishies and you will have losses, I can almost guarantee it. Also, when I made that mistake, I had 5-6 weeks of daily 75 water changes, sometimes twice, to bring nitrites, ammonia down to 0
Good luck!

 

[ThatFishGirl6231]

First of all, welcome to the forum! I have some concerns.

1. African dwarf frogs need to be kept in pairs or more (they are very social)
2.The African dwarf frog might eat your shrimp
3.Dwarf gouramis prefer soft water while mollies prefer hard water
4.Cory cats are also social and prefer to be in groups

 

[ClownLurch]

This is my first post so I'm excited to have found this forum! A little bit of background. I grew up with a tropical tank, had one in college and the first few years of marriage. Then didn't have anything for about 10 years. Then I had a saltwater tank for about 5 years. And haven't had any tank for the past 9 years. So I'm kind of new back into Tropical. I have a 44g tank and have been cycling it for 6 days. We will have the water tested on Saturday and hopefully be able to bring home our first few fish. What I would like your opinion on is what I have selected for the tank once it is fully stalked. Do you seen any concerns? Can fish do OK in a school of 3 instead of more? I hope so as we would like to have a larger variety of fish. Here's the hopeful plan for once it is fully stocked:
3 Strawberry Skirt Tetras
2 Blueberry Skirt Tetras (I assume the Strawberry and Blueberry will school together?)
3 Glass Bloodfin Tetras
3 Harlequin Rasboras
3 Cardinal Tetras
1 Cory Catfish
1 African Dwarf Frog
1 Shrimp (either Red Cherry, Red Rili, Blue Velvet, or Blue Pearl)
2 Dwarf Guarami (Can I get 1 Neon Blue and 1 Flame and they get along?)
5 Ember Tetra
1 Dalmation Lyretail Molly
1 Balloon Belly Molly
3 Zebra Danos
When I add up their adult inches, it equals 43. I used an online calculator and it said I was at 102% capacity if all are fully grown at the same time.

Thoughts? Thank you!

Welcome. Im sorta like you in that I had fish in 70s and 90s.

Now due to the wealth of fishkeeping knowledge being at everyone’s fingertips I realise I knew nothing about fish back then. Youve arrived at just about the best place on the internet for friendly fishkeeping advice that is strictly for the good of your fish. Listen to this lot and you won’t go far wrong.
Research every fish you like the idea of on seriouslyfish.com. Their water temp-hardness-ph requirements. Their tank size and tank mates. Their group/schoo/shoal size. Etc.
Only after doing that should you start drawing up a realistic stocking list. It’ll save you money, hassle, hard work and fish funerals.
First find out your water hardness, second buy a water test kit, third cycle your tank properly. Fourth don’t believe anything a LFS employee tells you without checking it out yourself.
Run your fish choices past this lot before buying any. They’re good on here. They’ll keep you right.
oh btw don’t take fashion tips from them. Ever.

 

[Ferg42995]

Thank you EVERYONE for the responses and guidance thus far. I truly appreciate the feedback and the friendly non-judgement responses. THANK YOU!

I got the "official" water report from the water company this morning. I have not yet tested the water in my tank (I will go purchase a testing kit this evening after work). Here's the water report from the water company:

FLUORIDE	IRON	HARDNESS	HARDNESS
(mg/l)	(mg/l)	(mg/l)	(grains)

0.27

0.10

81

4.7

I will for sure drop the frog as it doesn't sound like that will be pleasant for anyone so will protect all by not including it. So that decision is done. Appreciate everyone's direction provided on that.

@Wills -- thanks for the schooling explanation. I do want the variety of color as well as where they tend to hang out in the tank to keep it all interesting and pretty. Also need to be sure I have the proper tank cleaners (thus the cory and shrimp). I had a cory as a kid and he had great personality for a bottom feeder LOL. If possible, I want to avoid snails. My memory is they ALWAYS got front and center of the tank glass and messed up the view. HA.

As far as cycling the tank, the LFS (I think that means Local Fish Store) had me start cycling Seachem Prime and I have been following those instructions. Today will be Day 7 of those instructions. LFS also told me to add a TINY TINY pinch of food twice during the cycle to also help. My original plan was to take in the water sample for testing to see if ready. Sounds like from you guys that it might come back as "ready" but not really be ready? So how will I ever know when it is ready if I can't use the test? I'm confused on that one.

Thank you again for helping me re-learn the hobby!

 

[FishBearer9845]

The only problem with letting food rot is you're not controlling the level of ammonia at any one time. The guide that was written for here has that control mechanism. I'm even thinking, too much ammonia will stall the cycle, even if you're putting just a small pinch of food in.

 

[Essjay]

For hardness, the number you need is 81 mg/l.
There are two units used in fish keeping; some fish profiles useone, some use the other. These are ppm and dH.

Mg/l CaCO3 is the same as ppm, so your hardness is 81 ppm, which converts to 4.5 dH. You have soft water so you need soft water fish. For example, your original list included mollies which are hard water fish - they need a hardness of over 250 ppm. As yours is just 81 ppm, it's not suitable for them. But it's fine for all the other fish on the list, you just need to narrow it down a bit.

 

[Ferg42995]

OK. So keeping softwater fish in mind and enlarging the schools a bit, how does this sound? The AqAdvisor.com calculator said this would put me at 104% capacity for my tank so it's pretty close there. How does this sound once the tank is cycled and ready?

3 Strawberry Skirt Tetras
2 Blueberry Skirt Tetras
5 Glass Bloodfin Tetras
5 Harlequin Rasboras
5 Cardinal Tetras
3 Leopard Cory Catfish (or similar)
1 Red Cherry Shrimp
1 Peacock Gudgeon
1 Lyetail Panchax Killfish
5 Ember Tetra

Also, I have been putting the Seachem Prime in the tank to cycle it for the past 7 days according to its instructions. I bought a Master Kit to test the water tomorrow. If it says I'm good, am I actually good to buy a few fish? The guide mentioned was helpful but I am already toward the end of the Seachem Prime cycling so I don't know what that means in relation to the guide.

Thanks again!

 

[Colin_T]

I wouldn't keep any skirt tetras with harlequin rasboras or peacock gudgeons because the skirt tetras are fin nippers and might bite the harlequins and they will eat all the food so the peacock gudgeon doesn't get any.

Bloodfin tetras, harlequins, cardinal tetras should be fine together with the ember tetras and Corydoras catfish depending on the tank size (length x width x height).

Killifish do best in pairs in smaller tanks about 2 foot long. They tend to hide in big tanks and you never see them. Some can also get nippy, and they jump so a cover is required.

Peacock gudgeons do best in pairs or small groups, assuming the tank is big enough. They don't normally take food from the surface and require frozen or live foods that can sink to the bottom. These fish do best in tanks about 2 foot long with minimal tank mates.

Cherry shrimp do best in groups of 6 or more.

 

[Ferg42995]

OK. If I drop the skirt tetras and replace them with a school of Celestial Pearl Danios (very small but beautiful), does that work better? Do they all get along at that point?

 

[FishBearer9845]

If you test in the water after putting in food to rot, the parameters won't read right - your bacteria growth, even with bacteria in a bottle, won't be established enough to handle the bioload of fish. A proper cycle can take between 6-8 weeks. My mum's tank is at day 49, so week 7