Startup Questions..

[IceyBlack]

Hello,
I am a complete newbie.
I have a tank holding 57 gallons, with a filter system that has come with it - in the hood.
The tank hasn't yet been filled with water and I am looking to begin my fishless cycle this coming week.
I'm not sure of the type of fish yet - still thinking - I know I'd like some neon tertra and a community tank.

What type of heater would I be best to use?
Should I go for 2 small heaters, or just one main heater?
What happens if there is a power cut?

Should I use pea gravel or sand or a mix?
I've been told sand could block the filters easily - is this correct?
What type of medium do I need - and can I just get this from the fish shop?

Do I need a top to put on top of the tank under the hood?

Do I put the plants in straight away?

What fish would you recommend as first in when I have fully cycled?? (I will be trying to follow the cycling article step by step).

Sorry so many questions....but want to get things right - and I know the fish shop may well have a different agenda to mine

 

[anwhyte]

Hello,
I am a complete newbie.
I have a tank holding 57 gallons, with a filter system that has come with it - in the hood.
The tank hasn't yet been filled with water and I am looking to begin my fishless cycle this coming week.
I'm not sure of the type of fish yet - still thinking - I know I'd like some neon tertra and a community tank.

What type of heater would I be best to use?
Should I go for 2 small heaters, or just one main heater?
What happens if there is a power cut?

Should I use pea gravel or sand or a mix?
I've been told sand could block the filters easily - is this correct?
What type of medium do I need - and can I just get this from the fish shop?

Do I need a top to put on top of the tank under the hood?

Do I put the plants in straight away?

What fish would you recommend as first in when I have fully cycled?? (I will be trying to follow the cycling article step by step).

Sorry so many questions....but want to get things right - and I know the fish shop may well have a different agenda to mine

the substrate is up to you, i use sand which looks great, but gravel is v popular & would probably be easier for planting live plants, never had a filter problem with the sand. I wouldn't bother about a lid under the hood, as long as the fish can't jump out you'll be OK. Once the tank is at the right temperature you can start putting plants in (long before the fish). I don't see any need for 2 heaters, one will be fine & if you have a power cut it wont matter how many you have, 57g is pretty big so a loss of power isn't going to matter for many hours, unlikely to cause a problem. Starter fish, again, is up to you, neon tetra's are always good, best to do a bit of research on what is available at your lfs, i like zebra danios, tiger barbs, golden barbs, platies maybe a gourami, you have a large tank so can have a lot of variety.

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum IcyBlack.
You can have a very nice community of fish in a tank that big .If you go for neons, you will want to avoid angels. They get big enough to eat the neons eventually.

A heater for a tank that size would be about 250W so you could easily share that load between 2 150W heaters and if one ever went bad you would still have enough capacity left in the good one for surviving the loss. On the other hand, these modern heaters seem to be pretty darned reliable. I have been getting the Visi-therm series and have had good luck with them but I also have a Rena heater and a few others and they all seem to work fine.

The gravel / sand question really depends more on what you will have in the tank. If you want to keep things like cories, the sand is a better choice but if you want to breed egg scatterers like zebra danios the gravel gives the eggs a place to fall out of reach of the fish predation. A sand gravel mix is good for surfacing "dirt" roads. The small sand particles fall between the gravel particles and can really make for a nice hard driving surface, not exactly ideal for a fish tank. If you have a filter where the water flow first goes through the pumping part before going through the filtering part, sand can be a hazard to the pump impeller and its bearings unless there is a lot of space between the filter inlet and the sand surface.

Another option, if you want lots of real plants with no fertilizer regime to maintain is to go to what is called an El Natural or NPT tank. They use lots of light, a potting soil substrate covered with a fine gravel and they are replenished for fertilizer by occasional water changes and the fish food that you use. An NPT requires some added research before you embark on that path and is usually not something that a beginner will tackle. I just felt it necessary to try to include that substrate option. There are even people that like a bare bottomed tank but it is not often used for a display tank.

I must assume that the hood / filter combination is made to be exposed directly to the open water surface but check your instructions, even guys are allowed to read instructions although we often don't.

If you are fishless cycling, the numbers can become a bit confusing when plants are removing ammonia and nitrates from the water but the plants will do fine if you plant them from the start. I you decided to do an NPT it would be essential to put the plants in as soon as the dust in the water settled, and it would be lots of fast growing plants at that. An NPT is often done without first cycling the tank. Philosophically, an NPT relies on the plants as the main biological filter so you start out the first few days with establishing some growth of plants then dump the fish in to achieve a balance. It is a precarious balancing act for a new fish keeper so I would avoid it until you have some experience with fish.

What fish have you found that you really like besides the neons? If you could post a list of fish you like we might be able to point out any conflicts and also help choose which ones should go in first.

 

[Tolak]

Neons are a more sensitive fish, with most being wild caught. Cardinal tetras are a bit hardier, and a better fish for a beginner. Don't skimp on heaters, it's false economy. Ebo-Jagers are an old reliable standby, Visitherms heaters are just as good.

A drop in the O2 level is the first concern with a power outage, filtration is second, temperature third. A few hours with no power is usually no big deal on a reasonably stocked tank, after that there are plenty of tricks for dealing with aeration, filtration, and temperature. Worry about that if & when it happens, if it does occur that frequently in your area consider a generator. I have a large one, it paid for itself saving a couple of refrigerators full of food.

Substrate is a personal preference, I'm the wrong person to ask, as nearly all of my tanks are bare bottom. Folks in the planted section will be able to point you in the best direction as far as plant substrate & plants go. Keep in mind that plants will consume some ammonia, when cycling ammonia is the first step.

As far as fish, make a list of what you like, it is not only ease of care but compatibility.

Never be sorry for questions here, keep them coming! We love new members who ask questions! BTW, welcome to TFF!

 

[IceyBlack]

Neons are a more sensitive fish, with most being wild caught. Cardinal tetras are a bit hardier, and a better fish for a beginner. Don't skimp on heaters, it's false economy. Ebo-Jagers are an old reliable standby, Visitherms heaters are just as good.

A drop in the O2 level is the first concern with a power outage, filtration is second, temperature third. A few hours with no power is usually no big deal on a reasonably stocked tank, after that there are plenty of tricks for dealing with aeration, filtration, and temperature. Worry about that if & when it happens, if it does occur that frequently in your area consider a generator. I have a large one, it paid for itself saving a couple of refrigerators full of food.

Substrate is a personal preference, I'm the wrong person to ask, as nearly all of my tanks are bare bottom. Folks in the planted section will be able to point you in the best direction as far as plant substrate & plants go. Keep in mind that plants will consume some ammonia, when cycling ammonia is the first step.

As far as fish, make a list of what you like, it is not only ease of care but compatibility.

Never be sorry for questions here, keep them coming! We love new members who ask questions! BTW, welcome to TFF!

 

[IceyBlack]

Thanks ever so much for the replies - I have a lot to think about now.

I like the neon tetras because they are so small and colourful- and I really wanted some fish I could keep in decent numbers so they'd have company of their own kind and I love to see them shoal - but I will look at cardinal tetras too - I did think I'd have the time to think about the type of fish I wanted while the tank was cycling .. but it's not that easy really is it - as I want the substrate to be the most suitable for the fish. I had counted out angel fish as I had been told they could bother smaller tankmates - and what I really want is a mix that will all be nice to each other. I am going to have a think about the ones I like then I'm afraid I'm going to be asking.....

Will be off tomorrow to get a heater - so will print out the advice and take it with me!!

 

[craig855s]

Cardinals are just like neons only a bit bigger and less prone to problems. Harlequins are a lovely fish to keep in groups of 6+ too. When they mature and are happy they go a fantastic shade of red with an iridescant border to their wedge. Danios are cool because they are so active..but i have had problems with them dieing so dont consider them to be as hardy as other fish i keep..corys for the bottom (6) and gouramis and/or bolivian rams would be a nice feature fish in a calm community

 

[IceyBlack]

Cardinals are just like neons only a bit bigger and less prone to problems. Harlequins are a lovely fish to keep in groups of 6+ too. When they mature and are happy they go a fantastic shade of red with an iridescant border to their wedge. Danios are cool because they are so active..but i have had problems with them dieing so dont consider them to be as hardy as other fish i keep..corys for the bottom (6) and gouramis and/or bolivian rams would be a nice feature fish in a calm community

I have looked at Cardinals and they are very nice - but I have come across another issue whilst looking at fish - the fact that it says on web nearly all cardinals are taken from the wild.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about keeping fish taken from the wild, for moral reasons, - I'm sorry to be a pain (and will be looking in my local fish shop tomorrow) - but does anyone have any ideas about fish that would be colourful and varied, calm and preferably shoaling, that I could keep that had not been captured from the wild??

 

[Harlequins]

Cardinals are just like neons only a bit bigger and less prone to problems. Harlequins are a lovely fish to keep in groups of 6+ too. When they mature and are happy they go a fantastic shade of red with an iridescant border to their wedge. Danios are cool because they are so active..but i have had problems with them dieing so dont consider them to be as hardy as other fish i keep..corys for the bottom (6) and gouramis and/or bolivian rams would be a nice feature fish in a calm community

I have looked at Cardinals and they are very nice - but I have come across another issue whilst looking at fish - the fact that it says on web nearly all cardinals are taken from the wild.

I'm not quite sure how I feel about keeping fish taken from the wild, for moral reasons, - I'm sorry to be a pain (and will be looking in my local fish shop tomorrow) - but does anyone have any ideas about fish that would be colourful and varied, calm and preferably shoaling, that I could keep that had not been captured from the wild??

I have 10 harlequin rasboras and they shoal beautifully and very peaceful welcome to TFF

 

[IceyBlack]

Thanks - just looked them up and I think they would be perfect..but are they bred in captivity at all??

I remember the other day when I was in the local fishshop markers on the tanks saying where the fish had come from - I will look for these tomorrow and see if the have them and what it says on the tank....I see they can also be kept happily with tetra and I'll check that out too

 

[drobbyb]

With a tank that sized you could try some of the larger community fish.

Rainbows make a good addition, expecially if you want to breed eventually. I do breed mine and it isn't hard. More information found here. The rainbows in my signature are known as Turquoise or Lake Kubutu rainbowfish.
Congo tetras are amazing fish with beautiful color. I've heard that they aren't that hard to breed either. Here's Some more basic information on them.

There are also some small cichlids that would go well in your tank. One of the most attractive is the GBR or German Blue Ram. Such a colorful fish.

 

[Tolak]

Millions upon millions of cardinals and neons are taken from the wild yearly, for generations. They are a renewable resource, and are in no danger whatsoever. Be careful, shops will tell you what you want to hear. Also be aware that the fish used to make flake food are usually wild caught as well.

 

[waterdrop]

Agree with drobbyb that congo tetras are quite beautiful and a good fish for you to consider. I also agree with Tolak that neons/cards are a renewable resouce that's doing well and I think its better that an aquarist such as yourself who is being careful to create a wonderful environment should be among those to show this beaufiful fish off. Sometimes I think beautiful aquariums are the very things that will help society to have generations of people who will know about and care about the fish that are out there and whether they are begin treated properly.

For years I too have considered neons to be sickly compared to cardinals, but this time around I got a shoal of neons and they've grown large, strong and beautiful and I find I really like the added streak of silver and the slight color differences from cardinals. Note that neons/cards are better introduced after the tank is 4 to 6 months old, rather than as a first introduction. Rasbora Heteromorpha (Harlequins) are a gread first introduction, along with zebra danios in my opinion. Also, any number of the hardier corys will do well at the first introduction after the fishless cycle.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

The whole moral dilemma of wild caught fish has at least 2 sides to it. One side of course is that you would think that tank bred fish do not affect the wild populations and thus make a better choice for the home aquarist. I really wish it was that simple but many, perhaps most, of the fish being threatened by extinction by man's activities are not really being affected by people catching too many fish. Most are being threatened instead by excessive logging in the areas where they naturally live or by diverting water from their environment for use in agriculture. When there is no more water, or no more food and cover, it really doesn't make much difference how many fish were or were not caught from those missing waters.
What has been going on the last few years is that people concerned with fish preservation have been showing the local people how to make a sustainable use of their fish resource. They do catch lots of wild fish and profit from it but are aware that their livelihood depends on those same fish and are some of the most vocal and effective people that you could want to have when it comes to protecting the habitat and, by extension, their ability to make a living.
I keep many fish that are endangered or threatened species according to the IUCN ratings but none of them are the victims of excessive fishing. I keep mostly goodeids which are native to Mexico and among them the truly endangered species are almost all that way because the rivers and streams that they used to live in no longer exist or have almost no water left in them. These fish are very easy to look after and breed, almost too easy to keep your interest, but they are facing extinction because they have no place to swim and breed. If the people who live in those areas had learned soon enough how to harvest their fish and preserve the rivers and streams, I might be keeping common fish instead of endagered species, the very same fish that I have today.