Starting Anew, What To Do With My Shrimps?

[bb1991]

So for the people who remember me from my previous post which was a crisis for me, I'm going to start again but not necessarily from scratch. (This is the crisis i had for those who are wondering. My link )

Anyways, I've learned from my past and its time to move forward.
So right now I've moved all my fish out and returned them to my LFS (luckily almost a full refund) because i spotted 2 cardinals with severe white spots.
Now all that's left in my 30 litre tank are 7 miniature red shrimps and 1 yamato shrimp because i knew the ich virus doesn't affect the shrimp. And since my room temperature is about 25-28C (Definitely 25C when the air is on, thats what i set it to) the virus will definitely die out in a week.

I have read the guides from the people who reccomended reading them, but i still have some questions that i need answering to start a new better life for my marine fauna.

1.) I've heard that rapid temperature changes affect stress of fish and the frequency of ich. Since i live in Thailand, the temperature in the day can range from 27-31, and at night, 25C because of me turning on my air. I was wondering, should i invest in some sort of temperature stabilizer or is this ok? (Oh BTW i already have a homemade small fan that i aim on the surface of the water. I heard this helps decrease the temperature a bit and i turn on throughout the day.)
2.) This is the second day without the fish and i haven't altered anything to the tank, including the water. I really want to keep the shrimp and the plants without having to excavate anything. Is it possible for me to start anew but leaving the tank as it is with the shrimp inside? For the sake of my black molly, i'm never going to rush into this ever again, and i'm patient as ever at getting new fish. I can leave it for 2-3 weeks if thats what it takes to have a happy, virus-free environment.
3.) This is a follow-up question to 2.) If keeping the shrimp IS possible, do i need to clean anything specifically or just let time sort out all the bad stuff. And also, can shrimp survive without any fish in the tank and no shrimp food? (Shrimp food being artificial food that you can buy at shops, not whatever it feeds on in the tank.)

PS: The tank's current status on having too little or too much bacteria i can't tell, because the fish were in my tank for about 2 weeks maybe, and before that i left the tank alone without any fish for a week. (But i did add the bacteria powder in the beginning, and have done so for every week like the container suggested me to.)

PSS: I'll finally go buy a testing kit for my pH and ammonia, etc. Although a bit expensive, it'll help me in the long run, and hopefully last a long time for when i decide to go pro like you guys. In the mean time, should i change my water and how often/how much?

Thank you guys for helping me with this, can't get this much help from anywhere else. And even if there are criticisms i'll take them as constructive, cuz i know you guys care a lot about the livelihood of fish, wherever they're being taken care of. ( I feel for you man! ) Oh, and also don't be lazy to ask a lot of questions due to waiting a long time for me to answer, i'll be glued to my computer throughout the day, SO ASK ANYTHING!! EVEN WHAT'S 1+1 I'LL ANSWER (but might not be correct concerning math problems)

 

[Baccus]

The shrimp should be fine with no added food for quite some time, espcially if you have live plants in the tank and lights on the tank. The red shrimp I am guessing are Cherry shrimp (tough little fellows) and the Yamato I belive mainly eats algea. I can't really say what temps the yamato shrimp will like and thrive in but cherry shrimp seem to be able to with stand almost anything (bar high ammonia), they are almost the cockaroaches of the shrimp world for hardiness.

The only real trouble with only having shrimp in the tank while you wait for the ich to clear before adding more fish, is that shrimp have a really small bioload (and you have limited numbers of shrimp as well), so the limited waste the shrimp will produce will not really keep the bacteria in your filter fed for the duration. For this reason you could still feed the shrimp just to try and help the filter bacteria kick along. Also when you do add fish I would do it gradually with just a couple a week or two apart that way the filter can catch up to the new bioload, and if any health issues develop in the fish you can nip them in the bud.

Fish wise I am guessing that any fish you buy will be locally bred, therefore they should already be used to your regions tempratures, but you can alwys ask when purchasing your fish if they where bred in out door ponds or in temp controlled rooms, or are the fish used to the natural flucations of the area.



Forgot to add shrimp do just fine without fish, in fact fish usually stress the shrimp and eat shrimplets or harrass the adult shrimp depending on the type/ species of fish.

 

[KittyKat]

I have read the guides from the people who reccomended reading them, but i still have some questions that i need answering to start a new better life for my marine fauna.

Freshwater?

1.) I've heard that rapid temperature changes affect stress of fish and the frequency of ich. Since i live in Thailand, the temperature in the day can range from 27-31, and at night, 25C because of me turning on my air. I was wondering, should i invest in some sort of temperature stabilizer or is this ok? (Oh BTW i already have a homemade small fan that i aim on the surface of the water. I heard this helps decrease the temperature a bit and i turn on throughout the day.)

Probably not - it would be "safer" to keep fauna that is suited to those temperatures! Thailand has some wonderful fish, most of which are already very capable of living in that temperature range. The variation in temperature does not really matter if you keep fauna that has been collected from the wild, nor if you keep well bred fauna. It will matter more for fauna that has been inbred severly and is already sensitive, but again, it is easier and "better" to just avoid such individuals.

2.) This is the second day without the fish and i haven't altered anything to the tank, including the water. I really want to keep the shrimp and the plants without having to excavate anything. Is it possible for me to start anew but leaving the tank as it is with the shrimp inside? For the sake of my black molly, i'm never going to rush into this ever again, and i'm patient as ever at getting new fish. I can leave it for 2-3 weeks if thats what it takes to have a happy, virus-free environment.

I recommend that you leave it a month, just to be on the safe side, then stock slowly with appropriately sized fish. A 30 litre tank is much too small for mollies! But there are quite a few gourami species of which you can keep a pair. For example, Betta simplex, Parosphromenus deissneri, etc.. To be honest, most of the species you mention in your other post are too large for your tank and you tried to keep too many of them. The thing about small tanks is that they can only have a small number of small fish in them.

3.) This is a follow-up question to 2.) If keeping the shrimp IS possible, do i need to clean anything specifically or just let time sort out all the bad stuff. And also, can shrimp survive without any fish in the tank and no shrimp food? (Shrimp food being artificial food that you can buy at shops, not whatever it feeds on in the tank.)

Ich will die off without a fish host within a week. Most other "nasty" bacteria and viruses will as well, so it is safe to just leave the tank running, doing your normal weekly maintenance. You do need to feed the shrimp though: they will accept fish food, but it is probably better to give them shrimp food. Even when you have fish in the tank, you will still need to feed the shrimp.

The tank's current status on having too little or too much bacteria i can't tell, because the fish were in my tank for about 2 weeks maybe, and before that i left the tank alone without any fish for a week. (But i did add the bacteria powder in the beginning, and have done so for every week like the container suggested me to.)

These things usually don't work. Go read about fish-in cycling and silent cycling (the latter is what you will be doing once the tank is ready for stocking with fish).

I'll finally go buy a testing kit for my pH and ammonia, etc. Although a bit expensive, it'll help me in the long run, and hopefully last a long time for when i decide to go pro like you guys. In the mean time, should i change my water and how often/how much?

Not excessive. Maybe expensive, but very useful. Ammonia and nitrite are most useful, then nitrate and water hardness, finally pH.

Until you have the kits, it's probably a good idea to change 50% of the water with *dechlorinated* water every other day.

 

[bb1991]

Ok, I guess tmw i will be going to my LFS to get a testing kit and some shrimp food if they do have it. (If they don't i'll put in a few flakes of fish food every other day just in case the big yamato shrimp gets hungry.)

But from a reply by KittyKat, i'm a little confused on this part.
"Until you have the kits, it's probably a good idea to change 50% of the water with *dechlorinated* water every other day."

Just to clarify.
1.) 50% even when there's shrimp in the tank? Won't this screw with the shrimp abit?
2.) Once i get the testing kit, do i still have to change the water every other day? and at 50% aswell? (Or I should experiment a little with water changing and find a niche percentage for my tank. With the testing kit to help ofcourse.)
3.) What should i look for in a kit specifically. I have absolutely no idea what it looks like or how i should go about the kits if there are many brands.

Oh and by the way, Thanks you guys for taking the time to read my problem i have and not giving the "too many words, too lazy to read" crap.
I guess it really shows that you care for newbies like me, and having the 'I've been there' piece of mind.

 

[KittyKat]

But from a reply by KittyKat, i'm a little confused on this part.
"Until you have the kits, it's probably a good idea to change 50% of the water with *dechlorinated* water every other day."

Just to clarify.
1.) 50% even when there's shrimp in the tank? Won't this screw with the shrimp abit?

Why do you think that and how do you think it will screw with the shrimp?

The aim of water changes in a mature system is usually to remove nitrate, and in an immature system to remove ammonia and nitrite. Ammonia and nitrite are very harmful to live animals, nitrate is also, but nowhere near to the same extent as the first two.

2.) Once i get the testing kit, do i still have to change the water every other day? and at 50% aswell? (Or I should experiment a little with water changing and find a niche percentage for my tank. With the testing kit to help ofcourse.)

Once you get the test kits you will need to do enough water changes to make sure that ammonia and nitrite are as close to 0 ppm as possible, and never go above 0.25 ppm. During a fish-in cycle this can be as often as 2* 95% water change per day, or as little as 50% water change every few days. In the long run, it's best to do smaller water changes more regularly rather than large ones rarely. For example, 25% water change per week is about right for most people. The correct volume and frequency of water changes should be enough to keep nitrates below 25 ppm.

3.) What should i look for in a kit specifically. I have absolutely no idea what it looks like or how i should go about the kits if there are many brands.

It has to be a liquid kit or powders to make up a liquid kit. Avoid test strips like the plague I use API kits, apparently Salifert are more accurate, Nutrafin are also ok. There might be some Asian brans that I do not know off, but basically, any liquid set of kits should be fine.

 

[bb1991]

Since its 2 AM right now here in Thailand, and i'll be going to the LFS this afternoon. With the timezones and all, i think its best i ask you peeps on the other side of the world if i should get anything else other than the test (i'll try to find api) kit? Like some sort of all prevention or all cure formula that is a must have to revitalize my tank with rainbows and teddy bears again? (Well, other than the must-have salt ofcourse) Like how all-you-can eat contestants would bring their own special condiments to spice things up. Do i need something special too? Or just what i've already learned from experience...patience & diligence.

PS: i just saw a picture of dropsy on somebody else's post. Man that gave goosepimpalies, i mean talking about scary. The Ring (jap version) is like a kiddy show compared to that. I thought i had it bad until i saw that, that disease sucks nards. (That's what made me ask above..)

PSS: Oh and should i also get a hospitank aswell? And if i do, will an ordinary outside pump that sucks air in with a ball thingee that goes into the tank connected to the pump from a small hose, and has a bubbles coming out of it be enough to oxiginate the water? (I have no clue what you call it but it has no filtration whatsoever, just making bubbles. I have one that i'm not using currently so if possible, it would save me money.)

PSSS: I was just reading a bit on this subforum, and i see Wilder keeps suggesting bacterial medication for many peoples. Should i think about getting anything like this beforehand, just incase? Is there something i should get specifically? I need to know whats in it or what it prevents since your brand names and mine are mostly different. Viral/Fungal meds too? (Currently i only have iodine to cure ich since its the only thing i've encountered so far) I WANNA DO THIS RIGHT THIS TIME!!!

 

[KittyKat]

Patience and research combined with a test kit should do you well… I'd actually pass on the salt as anti-microbial and anti-parasitic medications are considerably more effective, but research their effect on shrimp first! At the very least, you need to use a half-dose with most and they should be for emergencies only.

A hospital tank can be quite useful, especially as a quarantine, but given the size of your existing tank, it would probably end up being the same as that, so it may make more sense to upgrade your display tank to a larger one in the long term and use the existing one as a hospital/quarantine. For an average hospital tank, I would make sure to have a filter that can take some media from the display tank filter. For example, if the display tank is an external, then I would make sure that the hospital tank could take ceramic media; if the display has an internal, I would make sure it would have an extra sponge in, etc. Think about cycled filter media here

 

[bb1991]

coolio, ur here, like real time chatting now lol

i wrote an extra PS:, and also what 'anti-microbial and anti-parasitic medications' are we talking about. These medicines are sort of 'a best defence is a good offense' kind of thing right? Where it doesn't cure but prevent harmful crap from growing

It would be awesome if you can be a little more specific on the medications. Cuz if u were to take a tour at my LFS, you would be surprised how many brands there are. Some i can count on to be half-assed and pretty much useless, even harmful

 

[KittyKat]

Best defence is never a good offence when it comes to medications as most will stop working altogether if you treat them like that! I keep eSHa 2000 and Sera anti-whitespot in my cupboard for emergencies, but the first is quite expensive even here.