Starting A Marine Tank

[chr15_8]

Hi all new to marine but have been keeping fish since ive been 10 so about 9 years.

Ive kept cichlids and your normal tropicals. ive been wanting a marine tank for a while now so want to plan it well before i go ahead with it.

Ive got my current tank 45 uk gallons (185 litre)


Filter

Eheim Pro 2 2224
Eheim ecco 2232

Can someone add to the list please of everything i need for a new marine tank

Tank/stand
Filters
Heaters
Sand
Live rock
Lights
Salt
RO water
Hydrometer
Test kit
Skimmer

1) Lights
What type of tube do i need/lwould ook better?
Would it be posable to have any low light corals?
If so what sort of wpg would i need?

2) Sand
Should it be live sand is there any certain types/brands to look at?

3)Sumps
Do i need one? i know they add water etc but under the cabient there's not enough room for one.

4)Skimmers
As above do i need one? what do they actuly so do?

im still learning things about marine/researching so any comments help would be great.

last thing ahs anyone got any good links for setting a marine tank up/website to buy stuff on?

thanks
chris

 

[Nalaundi]

1) Lights
What type of tube do i need/lwould ook better?
Would it be posable to have any low light corals?
If so what sort of wpg would i need?

metal halides are most cost effective I am told
low light corals are doable... place them lower in the tank possibly under a overhang out of direct light
gph standard for corals is 20x

2) Sand
Should it be live sand is there any certain types/brands to look at?

agralive is a bunch of hooey... just fine sugar sized argonite will surfice and it will become live from the live rock given time.

3)Sumps
Do i need one? i know they add water etc but under the cabient there's not enough room for one.

lots of people run without a sump (including myself.) if you want have the benefit of cheto or that type you can turn a filter into a refugium or there are hang onthe back refugiums also aka the aquafuge by CPR

4)Skimmers
As above do i need one? what do they actuly do?

smaller tanks esp under 30g ( could be 50) ( US gallons) sorry horible with conversions and to lazy to find a calculator. depending on stocking levels run without it... and advocate water changes which I agree with. protein skimmers remove the disolved solids before they have a chance to degrade into ammonia and phosphates and nitrates and the like...

 

[SkiFletch]

Pretty much every question you've listed is dependent upon what type of livestock you want to keep. If its going to be fish only, things are easy, if you're gonna go down the sensetive coral route, things can get difficlt and complex quickly. That doesn't mean all corals are hard to keep, some are quite easy, but until we know which ones you like, it's hard to make good hardware reccomendatinos

Have a look through some major online retailers like liveaquaria.com or saltwaterfish.com to get an idea of what kinds of organisms you want to keep in that tank, then we'll steer you towards hardware

 

[chr15_8]

metal halides are most cost effective I am told
low light corals are doable... place them lower in the tank possibly under a overhang out of direct light
gph standard for corals is 20x


agralive is a bunch of hooey... just fine sugar sized argonite will surfice and it will become live from the live rock given time.


lots of people run without a sump (including myself.) if you want have the benefit of cheto or that type you can turn a filter into a refugium or there are hang onthe back refugiums also aka the aquafuge by CPR


smaller tanks esp under 30g ( could be 50) ( US gallons) sorry horible with conversions and to lazy to find a calculator. depending on stocking levels run without it... and advocate water changes which I agree with. protein skimmers remove the disolved solids before they have a chance to degrade into ammonia and phosphates and nitrates and the like...

thanks i wouldnt be looking at Metal halides yet as ive already got fluorescent lights for the tank (1x 55w 3x 36w) form my freswater planted tank so would just be tubes for now.

whats 'cheto' mean?

the tank is about 50 us gallons/40 uk gallons

Pretty much every question you've listed is dependent upon what type of livestock you want to keep. If its going to be fish only, things are easy, if you're gonna go down the sensetive coral route, things can get difficlt and complex quickly. That doesn't mean all corals are hard to keep, some are quite easy, but until we know which ones you like, it's hard to make good hardware reccomendatinos

Have a look through some major online retailers like liveaquaria.com or saltwaterfish.com to get an idea of what kinds of organisms you want to keep in that tank, then we'll steer you towards hardware

to be honest im not sure. a few of the fish i like are available from my local fish shop
clown fish (im sure you know the xact ones im thinking lol),
Yellowtail Damselfish
Neon Blue Goby
Bicolor Angelfish
Flame Angelfish
oh and maybe some sort of eel if its suitable.

corals im really not sure. just a few little ones that dont need much light/hard to look after just to add abit of colour/difference to the tank

also im aware you carnt stock a marine tank as much as a tropical tank so how many inch per gallon (us or uk?) should i go for?

im wanting a big pile/wall along the back of the tank of live rock for hiding the hardware etc like in my cichlid tank. any guides for the amount per gallons as well?

the filters are good for 101 us gallons/84 uk gallons so the waters is over filtered

thanks
chris

 

[kj23502]

The flames are notorious for winding up chewing on coral

Smaller fish will end up being eaten the eel in the long run. Even the more docile and smaller snowflake eel (echidna nebulosa) will wind up trying if/when the fish get close enough. Also, the main food in the snowflakes evironment are snails/crustaceans so I'm afraid any shrimp and maybe your snails will end up as food also.

bicolor angels are reported to be hard to keep..."Most specimens die on arrival, with the remainder rarely lasting a month." The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner.

You can try a fowlr first and then research about corals and upgrade your lighting later if or as needed

You should have 5x turnover going through filters for saltwater setups so that would idealy be 225 gallons per hour.

Cheato is a plant that people keep in their sumps or refugiums that "eat" up nitrates.

Most people shoot for 1lb of rock per gallon of water...your tank is 45 uk so you'd need 23 kilos ideally according to this websites calculator

 

[chr15_8]

thanks thats rules though fish out then as i want some sort of cleaner crew aswell.

in my cichlid tanki have under gravel jets http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ug_jets.php

could i adapt this to use instead of power heads? the pump im using is 2300 lph if i remember correctly so i could turn it down/up if i wanted to?

 

[SkiFletch]

You sure can use those undergravel jets, you'll just need more flow than that . If you're going to go fish only with live rock, you'll need at least 10 times turnover per hour, and if you eventually want corals, I'd reccomend 20 times. Two maxijets with all the restrictions on them will be lucky to push 1200lph by the time all is said and done, leaving you a good 2500lph shy of where you want to be. I'd suppliment this with something like a Hydor Koralia or Tunze Nanostream powerhead to get enough water movement.

External filters will not be necessary for biologic filtration, the rocks take care of that for you. Its not a bad idea though to have something like a small HOB filter with some phosphate binding media, or even an HOB refugium to grow chaetomorpha algae to naturally remove phosphates and nitrates. This will keep algae problems at bay. In addition to KJ's comments, beware damselfish, they can get very very territorial and aggressive. As bad if not worse than Mbuna chiclids

 

[chr15_8]

You sure can use those undergravel jets, you'll just need more flow than that . If you're going to go fish only with live rock, you'll need at least 10 times turnover per hour, and if you eventually want corals, I'd reccomend 20 times. Two maxijets with all the restrictions on them will be lucky to push 1200lph by the time all is said and done, leaving you a good 2500lph shy of where you want to be. I'd suppliment this with something like a Hydor Koralia or Tunze Nanostream powerhead to get enough water movement.

External filters will not be necessary for biologic filtration, the rocks take care of that for you. Its not a bad idea though to have something like a small HOB filter with some phosphate binding media, or even an HOB refugium to grow chaetomorpha algae to naturally remove phosphates and nitrates. This will keep algae problems at bay. In addition to KJ's comments, beware damselfish, they can get very very territorial and aggressive. As bad if not worse than Mbuna chiclids

thanks
im going to keep the filters to polish the water then. the undergravel jets have a 2,400lph pump on them (just checked). so thats about 13x the water + the filters about 19x in total

is there any guides for marine fish as to what can go with what and recommended setups?

i will have a look into refugium but does the tank need to be drilled at all?

thanks gain
chris

 

[SkiFletch]

the undergravel jets have a 2,400lph pump on them (just checked).

Yes, that is true. Two unloaded Maxijet 1200 powerheads with no inlet strainer and nothing on the output will produce 2400lph worth of flow. However, when you start adding sponges and strainers on the inlet and then force the pump to push through long lengths of smaller diameter tubing filled with bends, you create backpressure on the pump which lowers its flowrate. If you'd like I can help run you through the engineering, but please trust me when I say your real-world flowrate will be more like 600lph each.

HOB refugiums do not require drilling of the tank. If you employ a hood, you may have to modify the hood to get the appropriate pipes to fit like any HOB item.

Sadly there's no real good guide for compatibility as the number of species in the marine world is so diverse and complex. I usually tell people to build their livestock around their one "must have" organism. Pick the thing you can't live without and then see what else might go with it

 

[chr15_8]

the undergravel jets have a 2,400lph pump on them (just checked).

Yes, that is true. Two unloaded Maxijet 1200 powerheads with no inlet strainer and nothing on the output will produce 2400lph worth of flow. However, when you start adding sponges and strainers on the inlet and then force the pump to push through long lengths of smaller diameter tubing filled with bends, you create backpressure on the pump which lowers its flowrate. If you'd like I can help run you through the engineering, but please trust me when I say your real-world flowrate will be more like 600lph each.

HOB refugiums do not require drilling of the tank. If you employ a hood, you may have to modify the hood to get the appropriate pipes to fit like any HOB item.

Sadly there's no real good guide for compatibility as the number of species in the marine world is so diverse and complex. I usually tell people to build their livestock around their one "must have" organism. Pick the thing you can't live without and then see what else might go with it

true. i forgot about they take the max output eg no tube etc. so you wouold still add another 2 maxijet 1200 powerheads ontop of the under gravel jets?

ok like i said il look into HOB refugiums

again thanks il look and see what i like and have a good read up on them

 

[SkiFletch]

You CAN do that, my experience just leads me to reccomend the propeller type powerheads like the Koralias and the Tunzes

 

[chr15_8]

<a href="http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/COMPLETE-REFUGIUM-MU...p3286.m20.l1116" target="_blank">http/cgi.ebay.co.uk/COMPLETE-REFUGIUM-MU...p3286.m20.l1116</a>

do these refugium look any good? come with lights + pump. the top of my lid is made out of a thin aluminum so i can cut the lid with a cutter to make neat and tidy fit for the tubes.

the "must have" organism would be the clown fish i surpose.

have looked thought the site and found the fish i like with the numbers i would like of each not sure if this is to many of each species or too much fish in total.

No. of fish | Fish Name | total size (inch)
3 | Clown | 6
3 | Neon Blue Gobys | 7 1/2
2 |Chalk Bass |6
1 |Purple Fire Fish |3 1/2
2 |Filamentel Flaser Wrasse |6
1 |Cleaner Wrasse |4

total mass of fish = 33 inch i 50 us gallon tank (actual water volume)

would 2 of these cleaner packs be ok?
http/www.aquaticlifedirect.co.uk/TankCle...ne/StarterPack4

also skimmer would i need one with the above fish and a refugium

thanks
chris

 

[SkiFletch]

That refugium would be fine I'd imagine. They're really not all that complicated or high-tech

Couple thoughts on the fish. Clowns in a tank that size should only be kept as a single, or a pair. A multiple of three will eventually lead to two of them killing the third. Cleaner wrasses are exceptionally hard to get to eat prepared foods and are not advisable for small tanks. Think 200+ gallons with really big fish. Also keeping two male filamented flasher wrasses will likely result in death. If you can find a male/female pair, go nuts, but the females are not commonly sold in the trade. Better off getting a filamented flasher and maybe something like a fairy wrasse

I would say a skimmer isn't 100% necessary unless you're trying to stock sensetive corals

 

[chr15_8]

thanks again been a big help.

so 1 or 2 clowns, no cleaner wraases, 1 filamented flasher wrasses maybe a fairy wrasse

if i dont get skimer what % of water should i change and how often? im thinking 25% every week/ maybe every other week?

 

[SkiFletch]

You could start with every other week and see how it goes. Every tank, bioload, feeding regimen, waste production, etc is different so I can't say for sure. But so long as you don't have nutrient problems, 25% bi-weekly is good.