Starting A Marine Set-up (almost Nano)

[Gordon_46]

Okay so after keeping tropical freshwater fish for a number of years I have finally plucked up the courage and money to start a Marine tank. Right so I have just bought a tank on here off another member, it is a UK 30G size and is approx 3ft x 1ft x 1ft. I feel this is a nice size for lighting and so forth, also room restricts the size of tank. Now I currently have read basically all I can read on this site about set-up, fish, corals, lighting, heating. You name it I have read it.
My aim is to have a reef set-up being able to accomadate soft corals, inverts and fish. This thread will probably end up being a journal as i go along, so bare with me! I will be changing the lighting and heating. Here is what I have bought already:
1) Caribsea Arag-alive Bahamas Oolite 20 lbs
2) New jet NJ600
3) Hydor Koralia 1 circulation pump 1500 LPH
4) Reef Crystals Sea Salt 4kg 120Litres
5) Visitherm Combined Heater 100W
6) Also have bought thermometers, hydrometer and jericans!!!

First off what do you think of heater and circulation will it be ok? I will use both powerheads to give me a circualtion of around X23 maybe more.

Right now on to the first main question!! With the tank i have got a Eheim ecco external filter, now eventually I will want to get a sump, but my question is will the filter be ok to use with live rock in and maybe some other things for the time being or not?? Ideally it would be good to give me a bit of time to construct the sump. What do you think??

2) Also will it be ok to use the standard tank lighting for cycling? I havent tried it yet but it isnt anything amazing!!

Anyhelp will be greatly appreciated guys.
Pics of tank will come soon
Thanks alot

 

[Crazy fishes]

Welcome to the salty side ,
Good thinking with the shallow tank very nice for lighting. I may have gone with a slightly more powerful heater, but that is a small thing. My 24g has a 100W heater. Soft corals are good, I have recently run in to a problem of trying to mix corals which don't mix, Euphyllia spp. and GSP (green star polyp). If you stick with one area of the reef, when it comes to flow (and lighting for that matter) it is a lot easier to cater for their needs. GSP (a soft coral) likes fast flow, mine liked to sit directly in front of the koralia nano and get buffet about like crazy. When I put the frogspawn in which normally comes deeper down on the reef, the flow put a tiny tear in the tissue (1cm fissure at most) and it has ulcerated like crazy (now it is now about 2cm diameter). I will most probably lose that head now but I have everything crossed and am praying like crazy to the gods that I don't. From mistakes you learn and can tell other of your mistakes so they don't do the same. Sinularia, kenya tree, devils hand and GSP are soft corals all from the same part of the reef (intertidal zone) so have pretty much the same requirements. That is information from Ski, he is a moderator and knows his stuff, so it is worst taking note. Another location for information is reefkeeping.com, lots of articles there about various things marine. Buy bulk when it comes to salt since every week you should be changing 10% of your tanks volume for fresh salt water. It just works out cheaper that way. How are you with the water chemistry? When you go to the sump include a refugium they are brilliant for marine tanks. You could do a mangrove section, if you want to have a nice looking sump?!! What lighting are you planing on having?
If you have any problems just shout there are lots of people here who will be happy to help.

Regards

 

[Gordon_46]

Thanks for all that information, I will take note and read more on that. I am looking at the arcadia for lighting, maybe a 4 tube T5 lighting set with different spectrums giving the dawn and dusk and maybe moonlight effect, not sure on the moonlight effect though but I will have to read more about that.
With the powerheads I was going to put one at each end but now you have said that about the corals I will think more carefully about which ones to get or where to place the powerheads. Do you think I should buy another say 50w heater?

1) What do you think of the external filter to start off with, with live rock in?

2) Can I start cycling on just a standard flourecent tube lighting?

3) Are different styles of aquascaping better for different inverts, fish and corals? I was looking to go for a flat reef look?

4) What is a refugium?


Thanks again for the help
And any more help will be greatly appreciated

 

[SkiFletch]

Always good to have two heaters, redundancy is key.

1- I'm really not a fan of externals unless they're used for either water movement or chemical filtration

2- Sure can

3- No, not really

4- A refugium is a place used to grow macro algaes to help lower phosphates and nitrates.

 

[Crazy fishes]

As Ski says no particular 'rock formation' has advantages but make sure you create lots of surface area to your reef. This is so you have enough places to put corals; something which I have to do is re jig the rock when I get new corals so I have places to put them. You don't want to be doing this; it is time consuming, messy and upsets the live stock you have in the tank. The latter is probably the most important since stressed out live stock has greater risk of dying. Find a nice open conformation with plenty of surface area is the best way to go. Oh yeah it also helps with water circulation so there are no dead spots in the tank.
The external can be used to generate water movement, like top to bottom with a spray bar, and used with stuff like Rowa phos and de nitrate maybe even a purigen bag (Chemical filtration that Ski mentions). Live rock is the biological filter in marine systems. For a 30g I would start with 20kg of rock and see how that goes.
With regards the heater why not go with another 100W, because later when you get your sump, one can go in there and the other remain in the display tank. Just a thought.
With regards lighting there is a load to choose from; metal halides are the most 'powerful' lighting system at present and a 70-150W would give ample light to a tank that is only a foot deep and going to have soft corals. If mounted about a 10-12 inches above the tank that would be good.
In your sump you have three chambers created by the dividers. The middle section is filled with macro algae and a small light source is placed over the top. Something like an 18W power compact would be fine, the more powerful the light the better the macros grows. That middle chamber is referred to as a refugium and they are brilliant for sucking up nitrates and phosphates as well as CO2 which does wonders for pH stability.

Any more questions just ask

Regards

 

[Gordon_46]

Wow thanks for all the help this is really helping me plan at the moment. I am sorry about all the questions, thought I knew most of the starting-out stuff!!!!!
Ok well just a couple more questions for now:

1) I know the metal halides are the best lighting for reef tanks, but as my tank is quite shallow could I get away with using the Arcadia 100cm T5 Marine Luminaire Af445M ( it has 4 lamps)???

2) Just thinking about a sump. Doesn't drilling need to be done in the tank for a sump. If so how do you do it after a while? presuming you may have live stock in the tank? Also can a tank use a sump with no drilling?

3) Is it best to put the live rock on the bottom of the tank then have the substarte build up around it or put it on the substrate?

Thanks

 

[SkiFletch]

Sure can use an arcadia 4xT4 luminaire. TBH, T5's with individual reflectors can be as good if not better than halides as far as providing enough light for growing corals. They don't give that cool shimmer effect since the source is diffuse instead of a point, but they're quite effective

You CAN use a sump without drilling (requires an overflow box), but they're unreliable and at a higher risk of failure than drilled setups.

Best to place the rock on the bottom of the tank and then put sand around them. If you put the rocks on the sand they can/will settle over time causing rock stack slides... Not good

 

[Gordon_46]

I think thats what I am going to do with the sump, use an overflow box. I will hopefully start cycling next week sometime, with just the substrate for a couple of days and then adding the live rock. Depending how much time and money I have spent by then I might be able set-up the sump by then. I think I might use a 10 gallon sump. Just popped down the lfs and picked up all my test kits an extra heater and some more salt!!! Hopefully will get my overflow box tomorrow and maybe, just maybe a RO unit.

1) If i did use an overflow box for a sump, how would i do water changes? from the sump or the main tank?

2) Do you need to run some kind of filtration other than the live rock while cycling, like a sump or external filter?

Thanks for all the help by the way guys
Here is a picture of my tank:
My tank
http/i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/Ib...46/P1010499.jpg

Thanks again and looks like this is my Journal. Might help others out like me.

 

[Crazy fishes]

I think thats what I am going to do with the sump, use an overflow box. I will hopefully start cycling next week sometime, with just the substrate for a couple of days and then adding the live rock. Depending how much time and money I have spent by then I might be able set-up the sump by then. I think I might use a 10 gallon sump. Just popped down the lfs and picked up all my test kits an extra heater and some more salt!!! Hopefully will get my overflow box tomorrow and maybe, just maybe a RO unit.

1) If i did use an overflow box for a sump, how would i do water changes? from the sump or the main tank?

2) Do you need to run some kind of filtration other than the live rock while cycling, like a sump or external filter?

Thanks for all the help by the way guys
Here is a picture of my tank:
My tank
[URL="http/i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/Ib...46/P1010499.jpg"]http/i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/Ib...46/P1010499.jpg[/URL]

Thanks again and looks like this is my Journal. Might help others out like me.

Water changes can be done from the display tank, I would think that is easier but it really does not matter. No other filtration is needed the die off from the rock feeds the remaining bacteria on the rock and helps their numbers build up. Remember no live stock at this point (just in case that is why you are asking about additional filters). Once you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite you can do the first water change to remove the nitrates. You want less than 10ppm but ideally unmeasurable. Then it is getting the chemistry straight if it isn't and live stock can be added. Start with a fish plus clean up crew is my suggestion. The waste they produce will keep the filter in business. Corals are the last thing to be added. The only clean up crew members I think are worth anything are turbo snail; they do a fabulous job of clearing micro algae. Hermits and narsarius and those shrimps don't seem to do much IMO. Anyway think of your stock list and add what ever you like it is YOUR tank. Ignore me I spend far too much time thinking about fish and on this forum LOL. What wattage is the bulbs in the luminaire?

Regards

 

[Gordon_46]

No wasn't thinking about livestock at all yet. My main aim at the moment is get everything up and running smoothly during the cycling period. I will practice water changes and everything during this stage just too make sure I know what I am doing. I was going to wait untill all ammonia nitrites and nitrates hit 0ppm, then think about adding a nice clean-up crew. I just can't wait to get the live rock and see wait hidden jems are in there if any!!!!! The lighting will be just a standard 18w tube for the cycle then I will get the arcadia which has 4 T5 tubes and all have a 39w output.

1) Would you recommend doing water changes during the cycling period? Or leave it to the different levels hit 0ppm?


Thanks again
Will start asking questions about coral and fish soon as I am putting a list together as we speak!!!!!!

 

[Gordon_46]

Just a quick question!!! I am looking at lighting and I can get for around the same price as the arcadia T5 lights I can get a single 150w halide with 2 T5 moonlight lights.

1) The question is, is will a single 150w halide lamp be able to light up the whole of my tank? I am asking as the tank is 100cm long and the Halide light sits in the middle of the whole lamp. Will it be powerful enough to light up both ends of my tank sufficently for corals to grow at both ends?

I suppose I could change one or both of the T5 moonlight lamps to normal 10,000K T5 lights???

What do you think as I do need a quick answer if anyone has one!!!

Thanks
Anyhelp is greatly appreciated

 

[Gordon_46]

Anyone know if a single 150w halide with 2 39w T5 moonlight bulbs would light up the whole tank length ways
Enough to grow some nice soft and maybe a few hard corals?

The unit I can get could go so i need to know ASAP

Anyones help will be appreciated

The tank is 100cm long.
Cheers

 

[Crazy fishes]

That unit will be fine. The halide will strongly irradiate a 2'x2'x2' volume with some darker areas to the ends. This will allow LPS and some softies in the middle with other softies blended in at the ends. Don't do water changes during cycling. As I said before if you remove the ammonia and nitrite you are removing bacteria 'food' which is required to get the filter established. Just one thing with the lighting when you say moonlight bulbs do you mean actinics or moon light LED. I have assumed the former since LEDs using 39W are pretty damn powerful!!

Regards

 

[Gordon_46]

It has 2 T5 39w Actinics and some moonlight LED's aswell. Thats good I will go for it then. I was thinking of putting some softies where the light blends out a bit at the ends of the tank and some LPS and maybe some SPS or anenomies in the middle.
Thanks again for that
I will keep you posted

 

[Gordon_46]

Just looking through some posts and I have read that Halides can burn corals?? Is this true as my tank is only 15" deep? I am very worried now, can anyone give me an answer ASAP as I might still be able to cancel the purchase??
P.S The Halides will be about 8-9cm away from the water.

Anyhelp would be very much appreciated ASAP

Cheers