Sparkling gourami in 10 gal

[PygmyPepperJulli]

Hi all,

have been thinking about this since getting a new tank but @Artemus really made me think about it for real. Am upgrading all my poor cramped fish from 10 gal into a 64, however was thinking about putting in maybe some sparkling gourami, since I don’t want an empty tank. I love sparkling gourami, I’ve had one before, but said gourami also died suddenly and I don’t know why, so I‘m cautious about getting another one (if you don’t want to read a slightly irrelevant but looking for an answer story about it dying, skip the next paragraph ).

I had a sparkling gourami (only 1) in with some other fish. It was a bit crowded in there, but I did regular wc’s and stuff and everyone got along fine. However, one day I woke up, fed the fish, and found one dead sparkling gourami. No symptoms beforehand, none of the other fish was sick, it was just dead. The only thing wrong with it other than being dead was its eyes were a bit more popped out than usual. Could it be old age? I had only had it for a year and a bit though, so if it was old age it must have been in the shop for a looong time… any suggestions?

And as usual, a few questions—

1. How many could I have in there? I’m thinking either a group of 3 (1 m 2 f) or 5 (2 m 3 f). Do they like being in a school?
2. Could I have anything else in there? Suggestions as to what?
3. Would they breed, if it was a species only tank? (That is not me saying ‘oh no, they might breed’. It’s more that I would like the, to and am wondering if they would ).

Thanks.

 

[GaryE]

I would consider a 3-4 for a 10. They like larger groups, but the tank is very small. It would need to be heavily planted, and hold some Cryptocorynes. The design would have to be so you could not see the fish. If you do that, you'll see them, under the crypt leaves mainly. It seems counter intuitive, but in open spaces, a fish that size gets worried. They like shadows and to have hiding places close by.

They are territorial, so no school/shoal behaviour. They don't especially like each other. I might even consider 2 over 4 in a tank that size. I would get the planting going first. I would plan for no other tankmates.

The one you lost may have had a bacterial infection.

They're a hardy fish for their group, but they are easily pushed around. Tiny gouramis get no respect.

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

Sorry just a bit confused

I would consider a 3-4 for a 10. They like larger groups, but the tank is very small.

They are territorial, so no school/shoal behaviour. They don't especially like each other. I might even consider 2 over 4 in a tank that size.

Do they like schooling/larger groups or are they too territorial? Would it be better to just have one like I had? And if I did just have one, would it be possible to maybe have 1 sparkler and something else? Or just forget the sparklers and do just something else? (Suggestions welcome).

Why crypts specifically? (the tank is already planted. Pic attached. The fish haven’t been moved over yet, as as you know from other thread new tank is still in progress).

If it was a bacterial infection, would there be any reason the other fish weren’t affected?

Thanks.
PPJ

 

[GaryE]

I found mine really like crypt. wendtii, over java ferns. They're like Trigonostigma/harlequin types for that. It's a plant from their region, and there's something going on with that for them.

10 gallon tanks looked enormous to me when I started, but with time, they've become small. They are most of what I have, because I like small numbers of small fish in tanks. Ideally, you would have a dozen sparklers, but that would need a 40 gallon tank. We often make the beginner mistake of saying if it the fish is small, a small tank will do. But a lot of small fish think big, and you don't get to see natural behaviour in small spaces. I have read people here saying this species can be aggressive, and I have never seen that for a minute, in probably 8 years if you add up how often I've had this fish. I would usually put 6 in a 30 inch/75cm along the front tank though. I've never tried them in a 10. I also kept them with Bororas or Sundadanio, but wouldn't in a 10.

For me, 10 gallon tanks are for a single pair of fish and whatever number of fry they produce along the way. I tend to use 20s if I want a larger group. But that's not a rule - just an approach.

Your 10 is a cube, and the concern here is territory, to keep things peaceful. The height of the tank is attractive (it's a beautiful tank) but it comes at the cost of a smaller footprint. In my strange mind, the 2 cubes I have (both 15s) are really just 10s unless I have shoaling fish. With shoalers, you can look at water volume. With territory holders, you look at floor space.

Bacterial infections tend to hit those open to them. They don't necessarily spread through the tank unless you leave bodies lying around to be eaten by tankmates. If I get a viral infection, like a cold or COVID, you'll want to keep your distance (Australia to Canada seems safe!). It will spread. But if I have a sinus infection, it stays with me. It can be the same with fish. Some bacterial infections are highly communicable, but often they come with injuries or weaknesses/stresses/accidents with individuals.

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

Thanks a bunch @GaryE!

I'll try to get some crypts before I stock it, if I do decide to stock the sparklers.

Mine wasn't aggressive at all with his tankmates, he was probably one of the chillest dudes in the tank (I had one dominant female neon, but that's another story). Then again, they weren't other gourami...

Shouldn't they be kept in groups of three as well to reduce aggression on the females on between the males? (2f 1m). If you think just a pair would work, then I'm happy to try that. Just something I'd read.

I would like to breed them and have some fry (I've never bred fish but heard it's easy with sparklers and in a species only tank). Say the batch worked (which it might not, as I don't have any anti-fungal or anything) how many would I be able to keep? I would LOVE to keep a whole bunch, but also don't want to overcrowd the tank. And say I did breed them and then all the fry lived and I kept a few, how to stop inbreeding?

Any ideas about shoaling fish that would enjoy this tank as another option? Pygmy cories, maybe?

Thanks about that bacterial info. At that stage of my fishkeeping, I wasn't doing large enough wc's I think as I reflect back, so it may have been vulnerable from that and just died.

 

[Beastije]

What are the dimensions of this tank ?

 

[GaryE]

If I were to breed them, it would be a pair in a single species. Things like inbreeding can be dealt with later. First, you need a softwater tank to allow the eggs to develop. I've bred over 200 species, and never used an anti-fungal. Just clean water.

In a tank, extra fish around eat eggs. It's just too tempting for them.

In a community, I am a geographic snob. Asian fish with Asian fish... I would use Bororas - the little red rasbora species. Pygmy corys would work though, but not if you breed.

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

I think the dimensions are 35x35x35 (cm, not sure what the inches would be), but the swimming room is less than that as it has a built-in filter at back. Don't actually know though, as I'm not at home and therefore can't measure it at the moment.

So I could theoretically keep a pair of sparklers and maybe 8 pygmies? I know pygmies like large shoals, but would 8 be ok? But not if I was planning to breed the sparklers? Tough choice... I think I might try that. Then again, I might try to breed the pygmies instead... they're SO expensive where I live. Or would it be better to have them in the new big tank with the other cories?

So just recapping the options-
1. 2 sparkers and hope they breed
2. 2 sparklers (or varying amounts) and 8 pygmies
3. Something totally different (rasboras)

Sorry if this conversation is going around in circles.

 

[Byron]

For what it is worth, I would not keep pygmy gourami in this small a tank. They really are at their best in 5-6, with more females than males. Kept like this they have natural interactions. Males are territorial, but a 29g (length 30 inches/75 cm) is about minimal.

How do you intend telling male and female? I couldn't, until the males began "talking."

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

Just found this thread (it's pretty old)- https://www.fishforums.net/threads/how-many-sparkling-gouramis-in-a-10-gallon-tank.413651/

AqAdvisor also says 5 would be fine, but I know that's not the best resource.

Byron, do you think even a pair and letting them breed and selling most/all of the fry would be too much? I won't put anything else in the tank... or even a group of three or four and not breed them. I'm still a bit confused whether they like being in a group or are too territorial- is it because the tank is fairly small? I've heard people say they're fine in a 10gal, but only want the best for the fish.

To sex them, was thinking of talking the lfs into letting me shine a light into the tank to see the female ovaries.... which probably won't happen...

Sorry again for this roundabout conversation.

Also, can someone just list everything that you could possibly put in a 10 gal? I'm so tired of (not this site) hearing so many different opinions of what I can and can't do, I don't care how long the list is. Then I know at least I CAN stock these fish.

 

[Byron]

You will get differing opinions on most things. And that is an old thread, I don't recognize any of those members. Not that that matters.

Most gourami need a group, the small and medium sized species anyway. This allows them to "be themselves."

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

I'm just going to add @connorlindeman to the conversation (you don't have to answer this) but I saw on one of winning TOTM's you were planning to add 6 sparkling gourami in a 10 gal. I know the footprint is different, but how did that go?

And byron, if I added 4 or 5, do you think this would work? If not, just say no (I know you already said that, but I just want to be absolutely sure). I really want some and have heard loads of success stories with sparklers in a 10gal but don't want to torture them either.

And recommendations of what to put in instead or still welcome Really anything other than just shrimp

 

[Beastije]

And recommendations of what to put in instead or still welcome Really anything other than just shrimp

Sometimes, small tanks are only good for one of two things, and that is a single betta, or a group of micro rasboras.
I would say only one of the microrasboras species is suited for a small tank with low footprint, as most other fish simply need a larger footprint. You may have some luck with clown killifish, I love mine, they do utilize the whole tank, even though they primarily hang around the top, which may be a disappointment to someone. The males might consider their territory smaller, if the dimensions are smaller.
Or, if you do some reading, since I am not up on the latest info, some small crayfish might occupy the bottom of the tank (along with the betta perhaps, if the betta wont sleep on the ground)

For a while, even though it was not ideal towards the fish, I had 4 endler males in a 25 liter tank. Nice small colorful splashes in the tank.
If you have live food, single dario of some sort might work, but a single fish will never be as colored and will be most likely shy. Same could be said about the pygmy sunfish I assume

 

[AJ356]

If in doubt, why not put them in the bigger new tank? That would sort out all the debate on whether 10 gallon is too small for a group of the gourami? You could relax then and enjoy these beautiful fish

 

[PygmyPepperJulli]

I guess the general idea is I can't keep sparklers then. I would put them in the new tank, however it's planned to have ~20 neon tetras, a group of cories and some pearl gourami, and I don't know how the pearls would go with the sparklers.

So, literally the only fish I could keep in the 10 gal are-
Micro rasboras
Clown killifish
Shrimp/snails
Beta
Maybe a crayfish

Surely there's more than that? I've seen so so many ideas on the web, and even though I know the web is brimming with misinformation there surely has to be more than that (out of all of those, I would probably only have neon blue rasboras, which are actually danios and would be very difficult to find, or maybe clown killifish which would be equally difficult to find).