So You Want A Sw Tank?

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lljdma06

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Warning to those starting out: This is not meant to be a definitive guide. It's just to help you make sense of some of the aspects of the salty side of things before you move on to the main articles of MARC (Marine Aquarium Resource Centre). The biggest piece of advice I can give? NEVER rush into a setup. Take your time and plan it carefully. Create a journal or thread here to organize your thoughts and get feedback from other hobbyists. We love helping. Hope this little guide helps you with the planning process. I'm no expert, I'm, in fact, still learning myself, but I've spent quite a bit of time lurking in this section, over five years, WAY before I even started my own SW systems, and have observed many things.

Before you do anything... Check out some of the books mentioned in the thread below. READ, READ, READ!! It's so much easier to ask questions if you've done some reading first.

Recommended Reading

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Some introductory thoughts

1. If your starting out, bigger is better. Yes, you can argue that smaller is cheaper, but smaller SW systems, just like smaller FW systems, are less stable with regard to maintaining water parameters. The key to success in SW, stability. There are tricks to getting around this that give you a bit more leeway, but these are more advanced topics.

2. A nice starter size? 55g is a great size. The tank is affordable, the length, usually 4ft fits a lot of standard equipment, and you can keep a nice array of organisms. Can you start smaller? Yes, but it takes more effort... Which leads me to...

3. Effort - you reap what you sow. You can get away with a lot in this hobby if you work hard. Maintenance is key to success. If you don't want to do a lot of maintenance, then go bigger, and if you don't want to even do the minimum, I've got some great ideas for FW setups that you'll love to do and stay away from SW. I see many picos and nanos crash or degrade because hobbyists, while well-intended, get tired of the work. It takes a lot of discipline to maintain a smaller system long term. It's ok if you don't have that kind of discipline, but if you don't, then do yourself and the organisms you keep a big favor and go bigger.

4. System success isn't measured in weeks, but in months or even years. Haha, I'll be honest, Steelhealr hits me with this comment whenever I show him something of mine. Granted he's the one with the 6 year old reef, and mine are only 5 months old, so I let him do this. He's absolutely right. I may be writing this guide & have a ton of FW experience under my belt, but my systems are still very young, and only time will tell...

5. Go slow, slow, slow! No impulse shopping. I know it's hard, but it'll save you trouble down the road.

6. Know before you buy! This should be self-explanatory, yet a lot people buy things without the slightest clue of what it is. Don't always trust the LFS to tell you it's ok to put in your tank either. That crab may be super cute, but you don't know if it'll kill your shrimp that you love dearly. Or eat those polyps that you spent $5 a head for.

7. Try to have all your equipment before you setup. It doesn't help the long term success of a system if you are constantly doing upgrades and add ons because you didn't invest in the system initially and buy quality products. Quality doesn't have to mean expensive, but there are just certain things that you shouldn't cut corners on. I find I spend the most money on flow and circulation, followed by lighting if it's important to the organisms I keep. I also invest in quality LR and Livestock.

8. Don't buy sick livestock. Resist buying that sick acropora because you can get it for cheap thinking you can heal it. Get healthy stock.

What goes in a Saltwater tank besides Saltwater?

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Live Rock - Think of LR as your filter. It houses a lot the beneficial bacteria that process the wastes that the organisms produce in your tank. It comes in many varieties and varying densities. It can also come with additional organisms that you didn't conciously buy.

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Hitch Hikers - Organisms that usually appear after the addition of LR. Some are great to have, like copepods, amphipods. Some are very bad to have and you need to remove them when you see them (the aiptasia anemone is a prime example)

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Clean up Crew - The LR can't clean everything, so some special organisms are needed to help keep the tank clean. The CUC also keep the LR clean by removing algae growth that can smother it and kill the bacteria growing on it. CUC are comprised of snails, crabs, and shrimp that each serve a special function. The best CUCs have organisms that fulfill different functions (ei, detrius cleaners & algae eaters & sand sifters). You can't add a CUC right away, you have to wait for the tanks cycling process to be complete (See the article in MARC that explains cycling). NEVER ADD A CUC TO A TANK THAT'S STILL CYCLING!!!!

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Fish - They are usually the display animals of the SW tank, but the stocking isn't the same as in FW systems, and fish selection is often a difficult process in SW tanks. Fish take up the most bioload in a SW system. Again, you can't add fish right away either, usually after you've had your CUC for a while. NEVER ADD FISH TO A TANK THAT'S STILL CYCLING!!!!

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Corals - Sessile intertebrates that are also display organisms. They don't move like your CUC. Comes in all shapes, sizes, and forms. Do your research before you add them. They require a system that's more mature. You can't just add them right away. Usually corals are added after the first fish, and only very hardy ones, usually after you've had your first fish for a while. NEVER, EVER, EVER, ADD CORALS TO A TANK THAT'S STILL CYCLING!!!!


Types of Saltwater systems

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FOWLR - The easiest system to for a beginner to manage. It has just that, fish and Live rock. The lighting can be just enough to grow beneficial algae (coraline) & show off the colors of the fish. You can add motile invertebrates to this system as well. A motile invertebrate is one that moves. Crabs, shrimp, snails, etc. As opposed to sessile, which tend to not move (corals, anemones, etc).

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Mini-reef - This involves the addition of corals to the mix. Two basic types; non mixed and mixed...

A mixed reef has coral species from the various coral families. There are typically three groups (soft corals, Large-polyped stony corals, and small-polyped stony corals). These are beautiful reefs but can pose problems as different families of corals can be agressive and attack other corals. Yeah, they look all cute & still, but corals can be vicious and kill their neighbors for territory and food. They can do this either through physical contact or with chemicals realeased into the water column. This can cause pretty severe problems, especially in small tanks.

A non-mixed reef only features corals from one family or a similar group. For example a tank of just corallimorphs (mushroom corals). Another common non mixed reef are softies or soft corals, which include zoanthids, mushrooms, leathers, and so on. Now, coral warfare can go on within a non-mixed reef as well, but it tends to be less severe as the corals will employ similar defense mechanisms.

Softies - usually the hardiest corals, lack a calcium skeleton, but often feature calcareous supports in the tissue structure. Some examples include mushrooms, zoanthids, leather corals, green star polyps, etc. They can either be single polys as in mushrooms or colonial as in zoanthids or green star polyps. Very forgiving corals with regard to swings in water quality. Many are good choices for a beginner, and can actually become pests in the LPS & SPS exclusive tanks (see below). Some others, including Xenia, can unexpectedly crash. Hey! Other than my sun corals, I don't stray from softies, and I'm not hurting! You can make a very lovely reef just using softies.

Large Polyp Stony corals - Usually represent the second tier in difficulty. They have a calcium skeleton and a single polyp emerges from a calcareous cone. Examples include open brains, Bubble corals, Frogspawn, hammers, torches, etc. With these corals you may have to begin dosing Calcium on a regular basis.

Small Polyp Stony corals - This group contains some of the most demanding species. You don't need to keep these if you don't feel up to it. They are more demanding with regard to lighting and water quality, and dosing. They do best in more mature systems where many of the beginning errors have been ironed out. Montipora and acropora species are examples.

* A note on non-photosynthetic corals. They lack the symbiotic algae that helps a typical coral (see above) process food. As a result, they need to be fed, many of them often. So, unless you're willing to do a lot more work, I don't recommend them. Examples of non-photosynthetics include Tubastreae, Gorgonians, and Dendrophylia.

Once you go reef, you'll have to pay a lot more attention to lighting requirements for the corals you are keeping and maintaining water quality and correct circulation. You'll also need more equipment. Read, more money. :)

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Nano - a tank between 38 & 136liters falls into this category. Nanos can offer initial savings because there is need for less LR and substrate, smaller tanks are more affordable, the equipment is more affordable, and so on. Actually, with advances in equipment technology, it's much easier to maintain a nano long term than it was say 5 years ago, and as a result, more people opt for this as a first tank. Be warned, it's a smaller volume of water. Your fish & invertebrate choices will be limited, and more things go wrong in smaller spaces.

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Pico - a tank that's less than 38 liters. They are very cute, but they are the hardest systems to maintain long term. Again, with less water volume, A LOT more can go wrong. I'm not trying to discourage you from a pico, but take a look at the average pico thread here at TFF, most don't go past 2 pages. If you go soft on your maintenance, the tank will crash. I've got two picos, but I tell you, I work 5x harder on those two little tanks than I do on my 36g. You won't be successful with 10% weekly water changes that's typically advised for a SW system. Picos have different needs and your organism choices need to reflect this. You must do larger water changes, which can sacrifice stability for cleanliness. Ultimately, you'll do what you want, but I don't recommend a pico for a first SW unless you have some serious FW experience behind you, or some SW experience already. I had experience with FW picos, which have similar needs.

No, you've not scared me off yet, I still want a Saltwater tank! What do I need?

So, then, let's make a list of what you'll need... but first...

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A Side note

The biggest thing you need is a source of water. Again, you reap what you sow...

Tap water - Tap water comes with ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, copper, medicine, lead, phosphates, chlorine, and other items, not the most desirable things to have in a SW aquarium. Now, you can use products to remove these from your tap water and thus make your tap water usable, and many of the items listed above can be removed with simple chemical means. A bunch of people here use tapwater with great success. (Donya, I'll actually leave your post on CaCO3 intact, as I like it, but for me, it's all the more reason why RO/DI is the way to go, at least in my case).

Natural Sea Water (NSW) - Some use this with great success and NSW can come with many beneficial organisms (plankton) that will help your tank along. It can also come with pollution.

LFS - they will often sell water. They can sell you RO water which then you mix with salt to make SW, or they'll sell you premixed SW. If you don't want the hassle of making your own water, this is a nice option. It can be pricy, though, especially if you have a large tank or multiple systems. Or what if you need to do an extra water change and whoops! The store is closed! Oh no!

Make your own - You can buy RO water from the grocery store, a lfs, or even purchase an RO/DI unit that you can connect to your home water. Then you can purchase a saltmix and make your own water. Best option for control freaks who like to know exactly what's going into your water. Best option for people with multiple tank system (me). A decent RO/DI can be found for as little as $100. You'll need to check your RO/DI water for Total Dissolved solids (TDS). A typical meter will run about 20 pounds or $30.

Ok, so now back to the lists...

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For a FOWLR tank

tank (if it's a used FW, you gotta test for copper, invertebrates cannot tolerate the presence of copper)
source for water
lights (stock lighting is fine, but you'll need to swap the bulbs to Marine bulbs)
refractometer (measures specific gravity, and helps you determine salinity, it doesn't measure salinity)
thermometer
heater (must be one rated for SW & FW)
test kits (ammonia, high range pH, nitrate, nitrite)
buckets or jerry cans (to mix water, or do water changes, or store water)
Powerheads (20x turnover, accomplished by two powerheads)
extra powerhead (if you mix your own water for water changes, SW needs to be agitated for at least a day after it's initially mixed)
Live rock (between .5kilo per gallon or 1-2lbs per gallon, but it depends on the rock you are using & your system requirements though)
Substrate (optional, I have them. Aragonite reef sand is a good choice, at about 1" deep) lots of controversy on substrates, see the MARC article that addresses it.
algae scraper - Coraline algae is tough

Some optional equipment if you are going with a bigger system or need more with regard to water maintenance.

Sump - usually if your tank is larger, but nanos can use sumps too. Sumps are used to create extra water volume and to hide equipment from your main display. Like a system within a system, or the backstage crew for a main stage production. :D
Protein skimmer - optional, more for reef systems & bigger systems, not so much for nanos and picos, but often still used. It removes the organic material from the water.
Refugium - another optional one, works to remove excess nutrients using macro algae & or vascular plants. Also serves as a sanctuary for small critters (copepods, amphipods) and lets them establish breeding populations away from your hungry fish & inverts. Very popular choice for picos and nanos.

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For a Mini-reef

ALL THE ABOVE WITH THE OPTIONAL EQUIPMENT STILL BEING OPTIONAL, AND...

More test kits - Calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, general hardness,
lighting - this depend on what you intend to keep, options include T5 (good for softies and some LPS), T5 HO (good for most corals, except the more demanding sps species), Metal Halide (good for all three families, but may bother some lower light softies and LPS, and non photosythetic), LED (for all three families if the intensity & placement is correct)

I'm forgetting something, I know. Will add more to these lists as other hobbyists jog my memory!

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Some closing thoughts

Keeping a Saltwater tank isn't a competition. There is no rush, there is no pressure. You keep what makes you feel good and don't feel pressure to keep the most difficult things or to have the most expensive organisms. I don't keep anything but softies and I'm very satisfied. You can have a lovely, healthy system even with the simplest corals.

Eventually, this will be incorporated into MARC as an introduction. If you read the rest of the articles in MARC, the concepts I briefly touched upon here will be explained in much more detail. I'm really not trying to scare you, but I want you to be successful with a saltwater system and based on my observations, the most successful systems are the ones where a lot of effort went into the planning stages and the hobbyist started out with exactly the equipment they needed.

Enjoy this aspect of the hobby, it is beautiful. :)

Again, feel free to comment on this thread & rip it apart if you like. It'll remain open, and I'll continue to edit as things are brought up that I've forgotten. I'm still learning too.

L

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Again, feel free to comment on this thread & rip it apart if you like.

:shifty: I'll take that as a text wall invitation LOL.

For softies, you say "usually the hardiest corals," but it might be worth a bit more on that. Some are either a piece of cake (to the degree of being a pest in LPS/SPS tanks) or incredibly flaky and difficult, and nobody seems to have a good handle on what makes the difference in these cases. Xenia and its infamous blooms and crashes are one such example.


Tapwater - Not advised, some FOWLR setups get away with using tapwater, but often tapwater comes with ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, copper, medicine, lead, phosphates, not the most desirable things to have in a SW aquarium. You must also dechloronate this water.

As someone with a reasonable amount of what I would consider successful tap experience, this bugs me a bit. I frequently hear/read tap written off because it has "chemicals in it" (yes, literally "chemicals in it" - exact quote from many people), which is not a valid complaint. Chemicals are not scary and should be understood along with their removal methods. People also overlook the fact that the same attitude doesn't exist towards many sensitive freshwater inverts, which are kept using tap all the time, and have incredibly similar or sensitivities to some marine organisms. There are pretty simple workarounds for everything listed there.

Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate - many tap conditioners neutralize these and having a refugium or sump with macro will suck it right up.
Metals - use chellating agents and macro.
Phosphates - use phosphate remover, run on most heavily stocked tanks anyway.
Meds - use carbon and read local water quality reports.
Chlorine/chloramine - dechlorinator.
Fluorine - not really an issue in standard concentrations. Never read of any reported problems from this chemical either in long-standing tap-run tanks.

None of those have ever caused me problems. BUT! I'm not saying tap is awesome-sauce and everyone should use it. There is something else that has been a pretty big problem for me at times. It's also something rarely ever mentioned as one of the scarey chemicals. This chemical is nasty because it will throw multiple parameters off, sometimes in ways that make diagnosing and correcting the problem difficult, and, unlike the things above, there is no easy method of removal once you have water in a bucket. What is this substance? Good old calcium carbonate.

Salt mixes basically assume you're mixing with RO/RODI as far as the target KH, pH, and Ca content they boast. If you have a lot of CaCO3 in your water (or sometimes even just a little as most people would think of it - a dKH of 2 out of the tap is enough to be a real pain), you may notice CaCO3 precipitating out when you mix the salt. This means the KH and Ca content are now off of what the salt manufacturer intended, and pH may have been affected too. There are solutions to deal with this after the salt is mixed, basically by letting the water sit with a lot of aeration in a well-ventilated room (to make use of CO3/CO2 equilibrium) overnight and then tweaking calcium manually if needed with calcium hydroxide powder.

So, you can solve it in the salt mix, but - there's another but: top-offs, which should not be done with salted water. Strangely enough I've found it to be most of a problem on bigger tanks where the need for regular and sizable WCs is decreased. So, there are two options: more WCs to try to even out the KH (which will probably still end up being high) or top-off with RO. The second options is a workable intermediate if you can store enough RO for top-offs, but not for WCs (mainly an issue for big tanks again), and can't make your own. If the tap hovers in the 0-1 dKH range it probably won't be an issue even on big tanks, but if it gets up to 4, you can see pH/KH/Ca problems pretty fast and probably won't be able to fix them fast. Water softening systems are not always effective at ensuring a dKH in the 0-1 range, so it's something that needs to be monitored regularly.

If you've got well water in a hard area, you can basically write off using tap. If you're on city water, it may be an option, but you need to look at your local water quality reports and monitor what comes out of the tap regularly. Then it can be quite workable for those who are already in the swing of treating it as needed (such those already keeping sensitive fw inverts). That said, I just got an RODI unit after many years of tap. RODI, although it makes less efficient use of the water (a non-trivial consideration in some areas!), is easier to use. Given my current state of health (or lack of it), I can do with all the easier things I can get right now.
 
Again, feel free to comment on this thread & rip it apart if you like.

:shifty: I'll take that as a text wall invitation LOL.

While I'm totally ok with being ripped apart, and your points are very valid, couldn't you have started off by saying something nice first. This did take a while for me to write. :p

Unless there was nothing redeeming about this article? :p

I'm also, to be honest not a fan of using a lot of stuff to make my tap water usable. What's the point of using tap if you have to use a bunch of things to make it suitable? Then continue to buy them to continue to render the tap water usable. And I'd have to use all the stuff on that list of yours there. Over time, wouldn't the cost of a good RO/DI will make up the difference in chemicals?
 
FWIW I've never used RO, been using tap for 5 years... only use carbon/phosphate remover as which is still recommended for even ro water. But my water is considered pretty good...
 
FWIW I've never used RO, been using tap for 5 years... only use carbon/phosphate remover as which is still recommended for even ro water. But my water is considered pretty good...

That's great that your water is that good. My water isn't so good. Like Donya said, I've got super hard water, if I tried to do a salt mix with the CaCO3 I've got, I'd run into all sorts of trouble. I also live near agriculture. Run off.

It depends, sure you can use tap water and the two of you have great systems that prove that it can be done. I wouldn't be able to do it and without studying the water quality of every city I wouldn't be able to make that determination for each hobbyist. I did put tap water in the list.

L
 
DOH. Didn't mean it to come off as nasty. I like the bits I didn't say anything about, sorry! :/ Slipped into the same mode I use when grading. Maybe that's why I have a reputation for being such a harsh marker LOL.


I'm also, to be honest not a fan of using a lot of stuff to make my tap water usable. What's the point of using tap if you have to use a bunch of things to make it suitable? Then continue to buy them to continue to render the tap water usable. Over time, wouldn't the cost of a good RO/DI will make up the difference in chemicals?

Relative cost will vary by location and setup depending on what would be in use by default. If you had a system without supplemental chemical filtration otherwise, it could add up. Carbon and phos remover will already be used in many tanks though to combat in-tank pollution, so it might not even be an extra cost above what's already used. A few extra drops of Prime is pennies (Prime having both chellating agent and NH3/NO2/NO3 binding covered if I recall right). Macro as a bio-sponge doesn't really cost anything to keep things clean. Water isn't free everywhere either, and using tap means you're not wasting it. The amount of other things like calcium hydroxide and carbonate buffers to do tweaking after a precipitation event needed are quite small. In the last 3 years I spent somewhere around $25 for the two (carbonate-based and kalk supplements), which would often be used on coral-heavy tanks anyway, and I'm only halfway through the jars. I guess to be picky you could count a few extra tests on the test kits each month, but it's a good idea to test for some things on RODI systems periodically too to ensure their safety. Even with RODI, I'm still going to be adding a couple drops of basic dechlorinator as a safeguard, since a component failure or simply needing to replace a component and not doing it fast enough (the correct one of which I am blanking on right now) can cause chlorine to slip through. My manual was very clear about that and it's another thing nobody ever mentions about RO/RODI. Tap for me was really mostly a time and effort sink - doing the carbonate equilibrium thing overnight and such. I've never had a significant cost associated with it beyond what I would have been doing anyway and what I will continue to be doing even on RODI.

Please don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to convert the world to tap - my carbonate grumbles should attest to that. I just wish the information in the hobby about tap was more accurate so that people understood their water better.

EDIT: typos had to be fixed.
 
A nicely composed and neat Article, a good collection of pictures and great for beginners too as it is all concise, nice one Liz! :good:
 
DOH. Didn't mean it to come off as nasty. I like the bits I didn't say anything about, sorry! :/ Slipped into the same mode I use when grading. Maybe that's why I have a reputation for being such a harsh marker LOL.

Hahaha, I'm no different, they call me the "Dragon Lady" at school. Yeah, I have to be told frequently, "Lissette, start with something positive..." :lol:


I'm also, to be honest not a fan of using a lot of stuff to make my tap water usable. What's the point of using tap if you have to use a bunch of things to make it suitable? Then continue to buy them to continue to render the tap water usable. Over time, wouldn't the cost of a good RO/DI will make up the difference in chemicals?

Relative cost will vary by location and setup depending on what would be in use by default. If you had a system without supplemental chemical filtration otherwise, it could add up. Carbon and phos remover will already be used in many tanks though to combat in-tank pollution, so it might not even be an extra cost above what's already used. A few extra drops of Prime is pennies (Prime having both chellating agent and NH3/NO2/NO3 binding covered if I recall right). Macro as a bio-sponge doesn't really cost anything to keep things clean. Water isn't free everywhere either, and using tap means you're not wasting it. The amount of other things like calcium hydroxide and carbonate buffers to do tweaking after a precipitation event needed are quite small. In the last 3 years I spent somewhere around $25 for the two (carbonate-based and kalk supplements), which would often be used on coral-heavy tanks anyway, and I'm only halfway through the jars. I guess to be picky you could count a few extra tests on the test kits each month, but it's a good idea to test for some things on RODI systems periodically too to ensure their safety. Even with RODI, I'm still going to be adding a couple drops of basic dechlorinator as a safeguard, since a component failure or simply needing to replace a component and not doing it fast enough (the correct one of which I am blanking on right now) can cause chlorine to slip through. My manual was very clear about that and it's another thing nobody ever mentions about RO/RODI. Tap for me was really mostly a time and effort sink - doing the carbonate equilibrium thing overnight and such. I've never had a significant cost associated with it beyond what I would have been doing anyway and what I will continue to be doing even on RODI.

Please don't get me wrong; I'm not trying to convert the world to tap - my carbonate grumbles should attest to that. I just wish the information in the hobby about tap was more accurate so that people understood their water better.

EDIT: typos had to be fixed.

And again, the purpose of the above guide is to provide a very generalized summary of what a typical hobbyist should expect when going into saltwater. What we're discussing is more for advanced topics that are covered in more detail in MARC, which hasn't been set visible yet. I need to get on that, but I've got one more small article to write. Probably by late tonight.

Yeah, when you have an RO/DI you need to use a TDS (Total disolved solids meter), I know you know this, but a newbie won't. I need to add that to the list of stuff you need. It should measure 0ppm, if you are starting to see numbers, something's up with the RO unit and you need to have it checked out. When I "make" water, I'll test for TDS using that. I also used the waste water to water plants, haven't used the garden hose since I started Marine and I've had some of the best roses this season. I agree, I should add some of this information, if not here, than in the RO maintenance article by SH as an updated post.

I'm sorry that your health isn't good that you had to opt for a different method. That stinks.

A nicely composed and neat Article, a good collection of pictures and great for beginners too as it is all concise, nice one Liz! :good:

Thanks. That was the point, it's more of an introduction to MARC. The photos are for decoration, they have no purpose other than to just show pretty animalimals. :D A ton of work still to do, but Marine chitchat has been without a resource centre for quite a long time. The nano section has a great one, but larger tanks have different needs and MARC has an article on sumps. A bit out of my comfort zone as I neither use sumps or protein skimmers.

L
 
EW on open brain im sure its not pretty. You should have added "coral" to the end of that phrase lol.

Lissette. I will be doing more research on sumps as now I do have one. I also have learned quite a bit on DSB's and how they function. I think it will be a year or more before I can write much up about it with experience as I just started it all though.

Skimmer will come for it one day as well.

-Tyler
 
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