Simple Flowrate ?

[bobross]

Hello everyone,

I've been really creeping on here watching the planted tank section between this site & a couple other ones. Anyways, all I've been seeing is these tanks with crazy turnover rates for such small tanks. I understand the importance of a high turnover rate in planted tanks.

But how do fish & shrimp cope with these high turnover rates? It seems that if I read someone has an XP1 on a 10g tank, that sounds like a hurricane to me. But there are a load of people that have amazing tanks with really high turnover rates & great success.

Can someone explain that a little better? I know that it's important to have a high turnover rate because that way there are no dead spots, the macro nutrients get more spread around, same thing for CO2. But it seems like it would blow fish & invertebrates all over the place. How do the fish & everything else handle these? I thought shrimp liked slower moving waters, am I wrong?


BobRoss

 

[ian]

can i also add something to your thread on flow rates, as i also understand the above. However, i was reading on the Juwel website that it is also important ''the flow rate shouldn't be to quick as this allows the water to travel through the media slower and neutralising amonia etc etc to more effect''. Is this also true, cos it makes sense to me.

 

[Truck]

can i also add something to your thread on flow rates, as i also understand the above. However, i was reading on the Juwel website that it is also important ''the flow rate shouldn't be to quick as this allows the water to travel through the media slower and neutralising amonia etc etc to more effect''. Is this also true, cos it makes sense to me.

Until Juwel can prove that I don't believe it, It would be interesting to know how long it takes for ammonia to be processed, and even if there is less contact time the re-circulation is quicker so its a bit of a reversible variable.

To answer your question, any equipment that provides good flow (internal/external filters, powerheads and circulation pumps etc, then count them towards your turn over rate) Take the volume of your tank and times it by 10 and that is the flow you are aiming for. I have something like 18x circulation and my fish are fine with it.

 

[ian]

it would be interesting to know, i knew you'd come up with something Truck

sorry for hyjacking your thread Bob.

 

[bobross]

it would be interesting to know, i knew you'd come up with something Truck

sorry for hyjacking your thread Bob.

No worries man

That's where I always got confused at, was turnover rates.
I ask this question because I've almost put together a complete 5g nano and wanted to know about turnover rates a little bit more. This tank is going to be a low-tech setup for shrimp & maybe some other type of small fish. I don't know yet on the fish.

The filter I bought was external that's rated at 95gph. I know that flowrates on filters are usually not as good as they claim, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't going to be to much.

As far as turnover rates, I've got 11x turnover on my 55g with all the filters running on it & those fish are fine.

I didn't know where to ask this at so that's why it's in the planted section.

Thanks Truck


BobRoss

edit to ask some ?s.

Truck, do you think that fish & shrimps need to get used to a flowrate in a tank? example: i buy some cherry shrimp that are tankbred & used to a small flowrate. I put them in my 10g, that has a 15x turnover. Would there be a transitional phase of them getting used to that?


Does that make sense?

I guess I'm being paranoid because I'm probably gonna end up odering fish online. I want to make sure because I don't want to spend a bunch of cash only to watch them succumb to a whirlpool in a glass box.

BobRoss

 

[RadaR]

They'll be fine. I find that most fish and shrimp love a good flow. Even Discus seem to enjoy it (as long as it's not a jet of current), but that is little too scary for some people

 

[bobross]

Here's a strange comparison. I bought a powerhead for 55g a while back that did 600gph. It blasted water so hard that my parrots hid in a corner, so I removed it. Well, now I have two externals that combined do around 500gph & they seem fine. Current isn't even issue with them. How does that work?

BobRoss

 

[RadaR]

Here's a strange comparison. I bought a powerhead for 55g a while back that did 600gph. It blasted water so hard that my parrots hid in a corner, so I removed it. Well, now I have two externals that combined do around 500gph & they seem fine. Current isn't even issue with them. How does that work?

BobRoss

If the flow isn't distributed nicely and only fired as a single jet, then that can stress fish. Lily pipes, spray bars and powerheads (like Koralias and Vortechs) are good at moving "bodies" of water instead of sending out jets.

 

[bobross]

Spot on, man!


Well, I think that somes that up as far as my original questions go. You people have been very helpful. Thanks again.


BobRoss

 

[ian]

thanks Bob !

 

[waterdrop]

I know this thread seems to have nicely concluded so I'm sorry to drop in late but its just such a well thought out question up there and one that I've spent time puzzling over and thinking about a bit myself so wanted to thank Bob for posting it.

I believe the post by ianho about the Juwel website statement is a misunderstanding of context. There is a big difference between flow rate of the overall filter versus the internal flow rate in the media box that is part of the low-level filter design. A well-designed filter (such as the big external cannisters we mostly talk about here) will have a big media box and the water flow past any given cubic inch of media will be slow (as compared to say an HOB or internal design) and this slower internal flow, coupled directly with the actual larger volume of media and media surface area is a huge part of what makes these filters be better filters. I believe that's what somebody on the website was getting on about.

I still think the overall topic, out in the tank where the fish are, is quite interesting. An interesting comment by OM47 once was that he felt tanks with some good strong current in places also give fish an opportunity for healthy exercise and that they appear to be happier, healthier fish for it. There's also the topic of making sure there are perhaps some calmer spots, perhaps behind a large piece of wood for instance, that can be a great contrast to the strong current areas and yet hopefully without undermining the benefit of water movement that helps to remove places where trace ammonia can collect and possibly trigger algae (and carry out the other benefits of high flow.)

~~waterdrop~~