Siesta And Fish Behaviour

[Discomafia]

I was wondering the other day, what impact does a three or two hour siesta in the middle of the tank's photoperiod (to reduce algae), have on fish? In nature, there is no such thing as darkness in the middle of the day. In contrast, the middle of the day (noon) is when the sun is at its peak, i.e - brightest time of day, but I realise this would be more of an issue when taking care of wild caught fish.

Anyways, does a siesta screw up the fish's natural clock? I know its good for keeping algae under control, but at what price to our fish? Surely there has to be some effects, however minimal, on fauna because of this abnormal period... Do the fishes think they're taking a nap? Or are they not like us, thinking of a "day" as a long period of light (morning/afternoon), followed by a period of darkness (evening/night)...

I've been using the siesta method for varying periods of time throughout last year, and I didn't notice any abnormalities in my fish's behaviour. As a matter of fact, my cories were even spawning last May before I sold them, so am I right in assuming that the regularity of the photoperiod plays a more important role in behaviour?

Mods, please move this to ChitChat if you feel this thread would be more suitable there...

Cheers,

 

[Waterloo Kid]

If I remeber rightly the siesta theory was an attempt to mimic the darkening of the skies due to the daily midday thunderstorms experienced in the tropics. So far as the fish are concerned the darkening of the tank, although rather abrupt in our tanks, is nothing new. I'm sure that the tank still received ambient light, yes? If so it would be just like a sudden storm front moving over their river. The sun isn't ALWAYS out, and with the sun being so much brighter than our lighting , the difference between sunlight and a storm shower is far greater than the difference between tank lights on and tank lights off.

WK

 

[jimbooo]

waterloo kid took the words right out of my mouth. on top of that fish seem to have their own body clock as well that does not rely on light.

i have often switched my timers to constant at 8pm then started a 7 hour stripdown and reaquascape. at around 10 the cardinal tetras go white and hide in the plants, my angel stops swimming and hovers in the corner and the plec comes out to play.

bearing in mind the light has not changed at all and normally would start to go down at 9pm (4 tubes off in 15 min intervals) then the fish must have some other way of telling the time.

on the other hand i have a 4 hour siesta midday and the fish do not exhibit the same behaviour at that time.

dont ask me how they do this i have wondered that for ages but it is definatly true, i've witnessed it on many occasions.

 

[leafs]

I've always wondered how it would affect the fish, but now it makes sense. How long do these thunderstorms usually last in the tropics? I only have a 1 hour seista and I believe most people use a 2 hour seista. Interesting stuff.

 

[karlp]

I've noticed my synodontis petricola come out during the siesta, whereas they'd normally hide in the plants until the end of the day. I haven't noticed any ill effects and it's quite nice to see them during the day.

 

[leafs]

Has anyone ever tried to turn the lights off for a whole day once a week to mimic a cloudy day in nature? Would this benefit the plants?

 

[Discomafia]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

WK: Nice theory on the clouds covering the sun as the reason why fish aren't freaked out by the siesta. However, I have to disagree with the "midday thunderstorms experienced in the tropics" part, because I'm from Malaysia and rain or thunder during noon is not the norm, thought this may be the case sometimes during the rainy period... (end of the year - beginning of the year) It is true that the tanks (or mine at least) receives some ambient light, so I'll have to agree with you that it's "just like a sudden storm front moving over their river."

jimbooo: Insteresting to note that you use a 4 hour siesta, can you explain why you chosse such a number, and how much light does your tank get before and after the break? What are the benefits/disadvantages of such a long siesta? You said your "fish do not exhibit the same behaviour at that time." Did you mean the tetras going white, pleco coming out and angel hovering in the corner? So if they don't do that, they must be able to realise that they are only having a siesta, and it isn't really "lights out" for the day... Is their behavoiur like normal during your siesta?

leafs: In Malaysia, thunderstorms during the day seldom last more than 2-3 hours (can rain whole night sometimes), and the cloud cover is pretty thick.

"Has anyone ever tried to turn the lights off for a whole day once a week to mimic a cloudy day in nature? Would this benefit the plants?"

Don't think it'll benefit the plants, other than starving the algae from light. Plants won't matter because it takes a longer period than a day to cause any negative effects in plants... Sort of like the "5 day blackout for combating algae" theory. Only the algae is effected. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, and feel free to add on to this...

Fishy Mad: So it's evident that the syno thought that it was "lights out" for the day, beause it came out during the siesta. Was there a lot of ambient light in the room, and how long have you had the syno (maybe it's new and thus, hasn't adjusted to your tank schedule yet...)

 

[IovaykInD]

It's said to help with algae. The theory is that algae needs a lot of time to start growing and so by turning off the lights after four hours of it being on, the algae won't be able to grow. However, the plants can start up production and grow a lot faster than algae. This sounds like logical theory, and it's possible that this may be true...

But the whole siesta idea..has it really been proved? I know a lot of people use it, and I myself use it. The only reason I have it is because I've heard that it helps..and during the siesta, I'm not home to notice it anyways. Has there actually been an experiment done to see if this siesta really helps with algae?

Isaac

 

[iggy01]

But the whole siesta idea..has it really been proved? I know a lot of people use it, and I myself use it. The only reason I have it is because I've heard that it helps..and during the siesta, I'm not home to notice it anyways. Has there actually been an experiment done to see if this siesta really helps with algae?

Isaac

The siesta idea appears very popular on this forum, not so popular on some others. Some people swear by it, others say it's a waste of time.

I've used it myself in the past, but I don't think it has any effect on most forms of algae. I used to have a siesta period so I could view my tank for longer at night. Now I just set the lights to come on later. It didn't seem right to switch the lights off when the plants were pearling away.

The best experiments are the ones you carry out yourself. If you feel it works........stick with it.

 

[jimbooo]

jimbooo: Insteresting to note that you use a 4 hour siesta, can you explain why you chosse such a number, and how much light does your tank get before and after the break? What are the benefits/disadvantages of such a long siesta? You said your "fish do not exhibit the same behaviour at that time." Did you mean the tetras going white, pleco coming out and angel hovering in the corner? So if they don't do that, they must be able to realise that they are only having a siesta, and it isn't really "lights out" for the day... Is their behavoiur like normal during your siesta?

to be honest i'm not sure it helps with algae, it certainly doesn't help it but the theory is that algae need a continious photoperiod of a certain number of hours (i dont know how many) to flourish. plants also need 10-12 hrs but are slower to adapt to a change in light level. so in theory the plants wont notice the siesta and will continue as if it wasn't there, the algae will shut down as if it's night and then have to start up again 4 hrs later. as a result the plants have the advantage in the tank.

on another note i like to see my fish when i'm at home so the lights come on at 8.00am till 11am then off while i'm at work, on again at 3 till 10.30pm when the shut down starts (4 tubes off in 15 min intervals) lights off at 11.30

total photoperiod 10.5 / 11.5 hours

whats the point of lighting the tank all day when you cant see it and then having it in darkness when you want to enjoy the fruits of your labour.

regarding the fish behaviour it's really the tetras that are interesting. the plec's up 24 hours so thats not really a sign but the cardinals dont go white during the day, ever. if you've never seen them do this it's hard to explain but the red under belly goes transparent and the blue goes all patchy when they sleep.

 

[Discomafia]

I think this depends on how logn plants need to start photosynthesising. If they are up and at it after just 1/2 an hour, and if algae needs a longer period of prolonged exposure to light to start growing, then a siesta makes sense. But if a plant needs an hour and a half to start photosynthesising, and you run a 5-4-5 photoperiod, then your plant will be at a disadvantage, no?

I can understand if the plant has started photosynthesising, then there's a half hour or one hour break... But 3 or 4? Won't a plant have to ("start")absorbing nutrients, CO2, all over again?

Or does plant growth have nothing to do with photosynthesis? Can plants grow without photosynthesising I mean. I know that isn't possible, so I'm sorry if these questions sound a bit daft. I've had less than 5 hours sleep the past 2 days, so I may have a few less brain cells now...

Main Entry: pho·to·syn·the·sis
Pronunciation: "fOt-O-'sin(t)-th&-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -the·ses
: synthesis of chemical compounds with the aid of light sometimes including the near infrared or near ultraviolet; especially : the formation of carbohydrates from carbon dioxide and a source of hydrogen (as water) in chlorophyll-containing cells (as of green plants) exposed to light involving a photochemical release of oxygen through the decomposition of water, followed by various enzymatic synthetic reactions that usually do not require the presence of light —

Source: Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.

So after they finish photosynthesising, then they carry out various enzymatic synthetic reactions that usually do not require the presence of light... Sure, I understand that, but it really still doesn't answer my question...

And as for regarding your tetra's behaviour, I know what you mean by them going white. My h. rasboras do the same thing, they lose their orange colour and turn to a very white colour when the lights are off. This doesn't happen with siestas, but onlywhen my tank lights switch on for the first time that day, I usually observe this... Within 10 mins, they're back to normal. I was reading about how many shoaling fish do this, lose their colour when they're asleep, but I forgot the science behind it I'm afraid....

Cheers,

 

[Waterloo Kid]

Just a thought. Do the processes that go on in a plant during the hours of darkness enable it to absorb more nutients? If so the siesta may act like a power nap type thing and allow the plants to photosynthesis at their maximum rate once light is re-applied. not sure if that makes sense but it's just a thought.

WK