SICK TETRA

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Divinityinlove

Fish Crazy
Joined
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Hi!! I JUST NOTICED THIS.

What is wrong with this little guy??

I'm guessing possible swim bladder? Quarantine and swim bladder medication ASAP?

Can you please help by confirming or suggesting otherwise?

I couldn't upload a video so I hope its OK to link my YouTube. Please check him out, struggling to swim upright!!


Thank you!!
 
Hi, sorry about your tetra, he doesn't look in a good way. Linking the youtube vid was good, the video upload feature on this site doesn't work I'm afraid.

Doesn't necessarily mean swim bladder disease though. We really need more info to be able to provide much help or advice, so please copy/paste the template below and fill out the answers you can, it really helps people to get an idea of what may be going on in your tank.
Tank size:
tank age:
pH:
ammonia:
nitrite:
nitrate:
kH:
gH:
tank temp:


Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Volume and Frequency of water changes:

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Tank inhabitants:

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):

Exposure to chemicals:
 
Hi, sorry about your tetra, he doesn't look in a good way. Linking the youtube vid was good, the video upload feature on this site doesn't work I'm afraid.

Doesn't necessarily mean swim bladder disease though. We really need more info to be able to provide much help or advice, so please copy/paste the template below and fill out the answers you can, it really helps people to get an idea of what may be going on in your tank.
Tank size:
tank age:
pH:
ammonia:
nitrite:
nitrate:
kH:
gH:
tank temp:


Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Volume and Frequency of water changes:

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Tank inhabitants:

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):

Exposure to chemicals:
Here is all the info, nothing has CHANGED recently, all stable conditions have been successful in this healthy enough bunch for the last year. New addition months ago, all been healthy since. Only thing I can think of, when reading about swim bladder is, I feed them flaked foods, and some freeze dried foods, and it says they should be soaked BEFORE feeding... and that this can swell in the intestines and cause swim bladder. I wish I knew more about which foods to feed but til now have been overwhelmed really with options and studying them before choosing. So have been using the Lovefish tropical flakes my partner had since before I moved in since I basically took over this tank from her since she adopted it and wasn't that interested, so I'm still learning what to improve and how. I'll take food suggestions, please.

Tank size: 90Litre
tank age: 5 years
pH: 7.5 (unsure how to make it lower, the API strip test shows about 7.5, but I have another PH reader saying 5.5-6.5 constantly, I used to read adding a bit of spirit vinegar can lower it but didn't want to over do it, please suggest)
ammonia: 0
nitrite:0
nitrate:20-40 (it's usually at this point regardless of weekly water changes and nitrate minus addition, unsure what else to do)
kH:180 (working on buying an RO filter)
gH:180 (working on buying an RO filter)
tank temp:28C

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior): Just struggling to stay upright. No other signs.

Volume and Frequency of water changes: I change 20% - 25% once per week.

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank: I have 1 almond leaf in at all times, some general plants, java fern, unsure of all the names, java moss etc

Tank inhabitants: I have 5 male guppies, 9 glowlight tetras, a recent accidental inclusion of dozens of tiny snails. All other fish appear totally fine.

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration): Snails and a few plants added 2 months ago. Nothing more recent.
 
I'm far from an expert in fish health or disease I'm afraid (will be tagging some people with better brains and experience than I! Now that they have info to work with) but I don't think it's a food problem nor a swim bladder problem - when fish over-eat on dried foods or gulp air while eating flakes, they tend to get bloated, and otherwise look normal but struggle to swim away from the surface. Actual swim bladder disease isn't terribly common, is often misdiagnosed, and is very unlikely in your case, with an established tank, older fish and no recent additions.

If you've had this tank for five years and it was an adopted tank with adopted fish, I think it's far more likely that it's old age that is causing this. Internal systems starting to fail, so the fish is dying. glolight tetra aren't a particularly long lived species, five years is about the max. I could well be wrong though, hopefully @Colin_T @Naughts or @Slaphppy7 will have better info for you!

For the nitrates, you can do larger weekly water changes to help get that number down, many of us here do 50% water changes weekly, even up to 75%. Make sure you're not overfeeding (most of us in the hobby are guilty of that! and more food in means more waste out), add some fast growing plants like elodea or water sprite that help suck up ammonia and reduce nitrates that way, since plants like java moss and fern are slow growing and not so helpful for that, and you can also water change more frequently. When my fish have fry that are growing out, I up the water changes from 50% weekly to 2-3 times per week, since there's increased feeding and increased bioload as the fish get bigger. You can be guided by your test results about how often to water change. If 50% weekly is enough that nitrates don't go above 20ppm by the next water change, then stick with 50% weekly. If they go above 20ppm between changes, can either try a 75% change weekly, or 50% twice a week.

Just know that if you change 25% per week, you're leaving 75% of the bad stuff in there. That builds up over time, and can reach a tipping point. Ideally you want your tank water to be chemically close to your source water, so that you can do large water changes when needed, and reduce chances of old tank syndrome, or can cope with a crisis like a tank bursting or a kid pouring in an entire tub of fish food, when being able to do large water changes is essential. As long as you make sure to match the new water to the tank temperature before adding it, and use a water conditioner, then large water changes are fine. :)

Don't fret about trying to change the pH; trying to adjust pH does more harm than good, as swings in pH cause far more harm than a stable but "wrong" pH. The water hardness is a concern in the long term though, especially since you have a mixture of fish that aren't compatable in terms of their water hardness needs. Guppies prefer harder water, tetra soft, so even if you buy an RO filter (or buy RO water, or use rainwater) the water will then be unsuitable for the guppies. Sometimes it's better to let your current stock live out their lives in your current tank and water conditions, then in the future, choose fish that will be content in your specific water parameters. It's great that you're learning about these things and want to give them great conditions though! @Essjay is our chemistry expert who is much better at explaining these things than I am, and could give much better advice if you decide you'd like to use RO or change any other aspects of your water chemistry.

If you'd like to keep both, you could do as I am, and have them in seperate tanks. My water is hard, so most of my tanks have hardwater fish like guppies. But one tank I wanted to keep otos and pygmy cories, so I use a mix of my tapwater and rainwater to make it softer and suited for those species. :)

We can also suggest other more quality foods if you'd like :)
 
The fish has a problem with its brain. It might have had a stroke but more likely is the fish has a bacterial or protozoan infection in the brain. The fish will die so euthanise it now.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week to reduce the chance of other fish developing the same problem.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

If more fish develop the problem, add some salt, (see directions below).

----------------------
SALT
For some fish diseases you can use salt (sodium chloride) to treat the ailment rather than using a chemical based medication. Salt is relatively safe and is regularly used in the aquaculture industry to treat food fish for diseases. Salt has been successfully used to treat minor fungal and bacterial infections, as well as a number of external protozoan infections. Salt alone will not treat whitespot (Ichthyophthirius) or Velvet (Oodinium) but will treat most other types of protozoan infections in freshwater fishes.

You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.
 
180GH is often the highest reading on test strips, the actual GH could well be higher. Look at your water suppliers report on their website to check the hardness. Glowlights can tolerate GH up to 268ppm but prefer acidic conditions. Guppies have a wide range for water parameters.
Fish diseases, either pathogen or parasite, are notoriously difficult to diagnose and treat. It is therefore more important to aim for prevention rather than cure. Follow @Colin_T and @AdoraBelle Dearheart's advise to maintain good water quality with regard to nitrates. I would stop feeding the freeze dried foods.

The fish has neurological problems causing the inability to swim and the swelling on it's eyes. It may well be old age/ senility or it could be a bacterial infection. Either way, it is unlikely to recover. If you do want to go ahead and try to treat it try an antibacterial medication like Esha 2000 or interpet anti internal bacteria; plus aquarium salt. Increase aeration and remove carbon during treatment.
 
The OP's location is given as London, which is well known for very hard water.

@Divinityinlove Please do as Naughts suggested and look on your water company's website for hardness. You need a number and the unit of measurement as there are several they could use.
 
I'm far from an expert in fish health or disease I'm afraid (will be tagging some people with better brains and experience than I! Now that they have info to work with) but I don't think it's a food problem nor a swim bladder problem - when fish over-eat on dried foods or gulp air while eating flakes, they tend to get bloated, and otherwise look normal but struggle to swim away from the surface. Actual swim bladder disease isn't terribly common, is often misdiagnosed, and is very unlikely in your case, with an established tank, older fish and no recent additions.

If you've had this tank for five years and it was an adopted tank with adopted fish, I think it's far more likely that it's old age that is causing this. Internal systems starting to fail, so the fish is dying. glolight tetra aren't a particularly long lived species, five years is about the max. I could well be wrong though, hopefully @Colin_T @Naughts or @Slaphppy7 will have better info for you!

For the nitrates, you can do larger weekly water changes to help get that number down, many of us here do 50% water changes weekly, even up to 75%. Make sure you're not overfeeding (most of us in the hobby are guilty of that! and more food in means more waste out), add some fast growing plants like elodea or water sprite that help suck up ammonia and reduce nitrates that way, since plants like java moss and fern are slow growing and not so helpful for that, and you can also water change more frequently. When my fish have fry that are growing out, I up the water changes from 50% weekly to 2-3 times per week, since there's increased feeding and increased bioload as the fish get bigger. You can be guided by your test results about how often to water change. If 50% weekly is enough that nitrates don't go above 20ppm by the next water change, then stick with 50% weekly. If they go above 20ppm between changes, can either try a 75% change weekly, or 50% twice a week.

Just know that if you change 25% per week, you're leaving 75% of the bad stuff in there. That builds up over time, and can reach a tipping point. Ideally you want your tank water to be chemically close to your source water, so that you can do large water changes when needed, and reduce chances of old tank syndrome, or can cope with a crisis like a tank bursting or a kid pouring in an entire tub of fish food, when being able to do large water changes is essential. As long as you make sure to match the new water to the tank temperature before adding it, and use a water conditioner, then large water changes are fine. :)

Don't fret about trying to change the pH; trying to adjust pH does more harm than good, as swings in pH cause far more harm than a stable but "wrong" pH. The water hardness is a concern in the long term though, especially since you have a mixture of fish that aren't compatable in terms of their water hardness needs. Guppies prefer harder water, tetra soft, so even if you buy an RO filter (or buy RO water, or use rainwater) the water will then be unsuitable for the guppies. Sometimes it's better to let your current stock live out their lives in your current tank and water conditions, then in the future, choose fish that will be content in your specific water parameters. It's great that you're learning about these things and want to give them great conditions though! @Essjay is our chemistry expert who is much better at explaining these things than I am, and could give much better advice if you decide you'd like to use RO or change any other aspects of your water chemistry.

If you'd like to keep both, you could do as I am, and have them in seperate tanks. My water is hard, so most of my tanks have hardwater fish like guppies. But one tank I wanted to keep otos and pygmy cories, so I use a mix of my tapwater and rainwater to make it softer and suited for those species. :)

We can also suggest other more quality foods if you'd like :)
More quality foods to suggest, yes please.

Well I woke up this morning and he was dead in the quarantine tank. :( but I'm learning for prevention.

Thames water, full report and website brief in photos!

Thank you for all notes, I'll study these.
 

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Yes, the water is a little too hard for the tetra. Given their age I would let them live out their lives with you but not replace them. Check out
to see which fish might be suitable in your tank size with your water. If you consider a different species for the future, check back here to see if there are any issues.
Keep up the good work improving the tank! :)
 
The number you need is in the second screenshot - 273 ppm calcium carbonate. This is one of the units used used in fish keeping and it converts to 15.3 dH (the other unit we use).
This is hard water. it's great for guppies but not so great for glowlight tetras. But it's a long term thing, the hard water would not have caused problems for the tetra quickly.
 
More quality foods to suggest, yes please.

Well I woke up this morning and he was dead in the quarantine tank. :( but I'm learning for prevention.

Thames water, full report and website brief in photos!

Thank you for all notes, I'll study these.

Aaaww, I'm sorry about your tetra :( I honestly don't think there was anything you could have done to save him though, when they look like that, especially if the brain is affected, it's nearly always the end. It's a good thing that you cared enough about the fish to search for help and to learn more about how to improve the tank, it's always good to see someone who's new to the hobby who wants to give their fish the best!

Food recs; I would avoid freeze dried foods as well... my fish have never been fond of them, I always wonder how old that food probably is, and there is the risk of them eating too much that's still freeze dried, then it absorbing water while in their gut and potentially causing problems. If you want to finish up what you have, then soak a small amount in some tank water for a few hours before feeding.

One brand I suggest is called Bug Bites Tropical Microgranules. The microgranules might be the best size for guppies and tetra. Fish love it, it's a good quality, healthy food, and since some stays on the surface for a while (where guppies usually feed) while some of it slowly sinks (so mid-water feeders like glowlight tetra prefer to feed), it would suit your tank inhabitants. Any that sinks to the bottom, the guppies should clean up, but still make sure not to overfeed and to use a syphon to gravel vac and remove uneaten food that has fallen into the gravel and can't be reached by the fish. Gravel is good at holding on to debris and muck.

Personally I also like BettaChoice or Omega One Freshwater flakes for flake food, and NT Labs for a sort of powered food, since I know my fish have done well on those. Hikari are also known as a pretty good brand for food. They're a bit more expensive than LoveFish, but remember how long fish food lasts for! It doesn't take much to feed a tank, so spending £5-£10 on some food isn't so bad when you're getting better quality and it'll last for months.

It's nice to feed a variety of foods, since just as with people, variety keeps things interesting and also means you're more likely to meet all of your nutritional needs. Quality is also better over quantity. Just don't go overboard with buying too many pots and dried foods either, because while they do keep for a long time, they also do usually contain fish oils and go rancid over time. It's easy to buy more food than your fish will ever get through in 3-6 months, then you have a lot of waste, or fish eating food that's gone bad. I throw away any fish food that hasn't been eaten after about three or four months.

You could also get one or two dried foods like a flake and the bug bites for normal everyday feeding, then get some frozen food to give 1-2 times a week as a treat and for some variety. A variety pack that offers dahnia, mini bloodworms, brine shrimp etc would cause a fun little feeding frenzy, and give them a nutritious treat! Half a cube would be plenty for the amount of fish you have, maybe even a third of a cube.

I wouldn't bother with an RO unit mate, unless you really get into the hobby and fall in love with a softwater species, RO, especially getting your own unit - is expensive, wastes a lot of water, and requires knowledge and hassle in remineralising and getting the balance right to keep the tank stable. Much easier life to stick with fish that suit your water straight out of the tap! And there are some really beautiful species that will thrive in that water, not just guppies, platies and mollies. Let the tetra you currently have live out their lives with you, since they've likely always lived in that hard water even before you got them, and would most likely still be in the same water if you rehomed them. Especially with what are likely older/elderly fish, better to let them live out their lives in the "wrong" water in their familiar home enviroment, rather than put them through that stress.

I inherited a tank that has fish wrong for my harder water too, so I get it! I have just the few individuals left from larger schools of neons, cardinals, glowlights, black neons etc, one or two of each. Better to just give them the best I can and not buy any more, then eventually I'll restock with more suitable species. The damage is also done, quite frankly. Putting them in softer water now wouldn't fix it when they're elderly fish that have spent their whole lives in harder water. Not your fault when it's an adopted tank, and you didn't know about water hardness either.
 

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