Sick cardinals

Oli

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Anyone know what’s up with these cardinal, introduced 20 or so new ones recently, a few have died over the last couple days, some looks quite weak and pale. Aside from that, the tank parameters are perfect. Could it just be that these are the sort of runts, some of them are very small.

Pic of sick fish attached
 

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@Colin_T will know what that is, I had it many years ago but never could be certain what it was, but all fish that showed it died.
 
Yeah they’re dropping like flies, you can spot them pretty early looking weak and pale, then they lose colour, fins look ragged and much like a sort of fungus. What is the best treatment besides frequent water changes which are done anyway?
 
I'm not entirely sure but I believe aquarium salt may help but it will kill back plants. I do think it is internal parasite. Bryon do you think it is internal parasite
 
I'm not entirely sure but I believe aquarium salt may help but it will kill back plants. I do think it is internal parasite. Bryon do you think it is internal parasite

I don't have sufficient experience with "disease" to do more than guess, Colin will likely know.
 
I’ve had similar things in the past.I just think it’s bad stock.I’ve found recently it’s getting hard to find cardinals of a decent size and healthy.
 
It's a bad bacterial infection like Columnaris or something along those lines. It spreads extremely quickly and will probably kill everything in the tank if not treated immediately.

If you only got the fish recently, they would have had it when you bought them. The shop should be informed and you should get a credit.

In the mean time, you need to add some salt and get some medication (antibiotics) to treat neon disease or Columnaris. Salt on its own won't treat it but might help slow the spread.

--------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.
 
It's a bad bacterial infection like Columnaris or something along those lines.

I always get worried adding new fish because of something this contagious. I don't want to steer away but am curious is this something that would show up during a two week quarantine?
 
It's a bad bacterial infection like Columnaris or something along those lines.

I always get worried adding new fish because of something this contagious. I don't want to steer away but am curious is this something that would show up during a two week quarantine?
yes it would show up in a few days if the fish had the disease at the shop.

Tetras that have this type of infection are just about always newly imported from a supplier and have probably only been in the shop tank for a few days. We used to get infected fish (like the ones in the picture) in shipments of fish from the importers. We could hold up a bag of fish and there would be bodies in it and the fish would have faded colours and cream/ white marks on them. The suppliers just sent out infected fish to fill the order and help empty their own tanks so they could get more fish in.

Columnaris and bacterial infections are not commonly found in the home aquarium (especially if it gets regular maintenance) and are normally introduced with sick fish. Quarantining any new fish, snails, shrimp or plants for at least 2 (preferably 4) weeks will allow most diseases to show up in the quarantine tank. This means you can treat them there and keep the disease out of the main tank/s.
 
Yes certainly seems like the above. I have angelfish in the tank so am worried about salt treatment. As terrible as it is, I have never quarantined fish. It has never come back to bite me until now. I realise it was a mistake riding my luck.

I also don’t have a spare quarantine tank. I have simply seen cardinals turn white and start to act isolated (they float at the top of the tank and clearly look/act different from a normal fish). At this point I scoop them up and transfer them to a less than 5 gallon container. They passed away shortly after. (I know this sounds terrible, I feel awful for not quarantining and also having a tank to medicate)

As it stands, the remaking cardinals seem unaffected and the angelfish all seem healthy.

Where would you go from here..

I know I have acted awfully, I don’t have a penny to spend on meds/tanks etc.

I’m aware I have acted poorly and not prepared for a situation like I should have. Will my angelfish be okay as long as I continue to remove infected fish asap and besides from water changes, can I do anything to stop the spread.

Please be kind, I know this is my fault
 
You need to treat the main tank because the disease is in the main tank.

It could affect the angelfish and any other fish you have in the tank. It's not a disease that only affects neons and cardinal tetras, it can infect any fish in the tank.

If you can't afford medication, get some rock salt or swimming pool salt from a hardware. It costs a couple of dollars for a bag and should be heaps for your tank. Then do big daily water changes and add salt. This will hopefully dilute the bacteria in the water and stop it spreading to the other fish. However, if it continues to spread, you will need to treat it with something or you could lose everything in the tank.

Angelfish are fine with salt.


-------------------
WHAT TO DO NOW?
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge. This removes the biofilm on the glass and the biofilm will contain lots of harmful bacteria, fungus, protozoans and various other microscopic life forms.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for a week. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use the media. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration to maximise the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Add some salt, (see directions below).


-------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt) or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

When you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.
 
Hard lesson to learn, but don't beat yourself up over it....QT tanks are a must to protect the fish you already have

@Colin_T has you covered, good luck with the treatments
 

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