Sick Cardinal Tetra?

[jiffy]

I noticed that one of my cardinal tetras is not nearly as red as the others are.

I tested for ammonia and nitrites today and everything is 0ppm.

At feeding time (I just fed them and watched him), he does eat, but seems to be shy when another fish swims close and therefore didn't eat much that I saw.

Here is a pic I took tonight. I put one fish that looks normal and the one that may be sick beaneath it. I will watch him more tonight, but he seems to still be schooling with the other cardinals still.

 

[tstenback]

May be nothing other than adjusting to the tank. some fish take longer to do this. I woould keep a close eye on him and the others for a while to see if anything more develops. What is the nitrite reading? Keep us posted.

 

[luxum]

When i first introduced my cardinals into the tank, several of them had such faded reds that i thought initially that they were neons that had accidentally been mixed into the cardinal tank. After a few days they colored up. What are your ammonia/ nitrite/ nitrate readings? I did small water changes every other day for the first couple weeks they were in the tank and that seemed to settle them in well although it was probably overkill with the WCs, however the color brightened on all of them and it soon became clear that they were in fact all cardinals. In my experience, water changes are the best way to soothe stressed fishies if you can't discern a specific ailment.

 

[jiffy]

Ammonia and Nitrites are 0 ppm. I do not have a nitrAte test kit. However I feel they would be very low because I did a water change and vacuum less than a week ago.

He looked a little stressed last night, heavy breathing and hiding, but today he has perked up some more. He is still eating as well.

He looks a little more red today but it is still obvious which one he is.

I will do a small water change today and my regular one and vacuum on wednesday too.

BTW, the dechlorinator I use is called AQUA PLUS. It says it also has a "patented stress reducing formula". From the bottle "Pure Herbal Extracts visibly reduce stress attributed to transportation handling and acclimation. Aqua Plus also coats scales and fins to protect against scrapes and cuts."

Then on the dosage it has chlorine removal, chloramine removal, and to protect scales and fins. So, last night I added half the rec dose to protect scales and fins before I turned out the lights to try the "stress reducing" abilities.

Is there any truth to these things, or am I just wasting dechlorinator?

 

[luxum]

Personally i don't put much trust in products that add extracts from terrestrial plants to "reduce stress". I don't think it's ever been proven that these additives do anything helpful, may be harmful, and i just don't think fish need aloe vera personally. IMO/E the best stress reducer is water changes, pure and simple. I use a cheapie dechlorinator that handles both chlorine and chloramine and have never had any problems.

I suggest you get a nitrate test. Cardinals are not going to like much nitrate in the water, and if you don't test you'll never know. You may not be doing large enough or frequent enough changes to keep the levels down, or you may have nitrate in your tapwater which you'd have to deal with.

 

[jiffy]

bad news bad news...very bad news.

I did a small water change yesterday (15%). Tonight I just got home and he was dead. Well, I think it was him. But now there is another fish that looks like he did when he was sick.

I am not sure if it is the same fish or not, but one is definitly still not the right colors and another one has died.

Help!!

I just tested ammonia and nitrites and both are 0 ppm.

He is just sitting in the back of the tank, away from what is left of the school and he is also breathing fast.

Should I do another waterchange, or will this stress him more?

I have no idea whats going on!

Probably stressed him out more, but I got him in the net and kept it to the glass so I could get a few pics....

I also noticed what looks like a single tiny white/clear thing on his dorsal fin. I couldn't get it to show up in the pic. It was very hard to see even.

 

[tstenback]

Keep doing the water changes daily until you can get a nitrate kit. Also, check with the LFS to see how the rest of their cardinals are doing, may be a disease or poor shipping. But definitely keep the water changes going, cardinals are pretty fussy about water quality. Good Luck Jiffy and keep us posted.

 

[jiffy]

I went to a LFS (not the one where I get my fish) and they did not have a nitrAte kit. I was rather suprised. I told them what had happened and they suggested I buy some Rid-Ich+ and dose the tank as a precaution.

When I got home I called the LFS where I bought the fish and asked them some questions. Turns out they have a 7 day guarentee (unfortunately I disposed of the 2 fish I lost already). They offered to test my water if I bring a sample in.

They said that their fish had been fine and it is most likely something in my water or overfeeding or just that a few fish were ill.

I am going to bring them some water today to test and then later do a large water change and gravel vac. After I do that I will dose the tank with the Rid-Ich+ and hope for the best.

I didn't think I was overfeeding, but perhaps I am. I may cut back to 1 feeding a day instead of 2 as well. When I feed, some food sinks to the bottom before it can be eatten, but anything on the surface is gone in less than 3 minutes.

The dainos then search the bottom and eat some of what has sank. So...I didn't think i was feeding too much, but mabey once a day will be better.

 

[tstenback]

Jiffy

Dont add the rid- Ich if you dont have ich. Its just an unnecesary chemical in the water that will cause the fish extra stress. I know this is just my opinion but i really believe in this.
I wonder if the LFS will replace the fish for you anyway. You have called them and let them know the situation so perhaps they will honour their warranty without the corpses with the pledge that you will bring in the dead in the future if this occurs and that you really appreciate their service and support.

 

[jiffy]

tstenback - well...there is a possibility there is ich. I saw something on the dorsal fin of the fish in question which may (or may not) be ich.

I am completely in agreeance with you about not adding unneccessary chemicals. But with this specific case in mine, the LFS that I bought it at recomended it and when I called the LFS I buy fish from I told them I had rid-ich and they said it wouldn't hurt to use it in case.

But, the instructions on the bottle say to dose every 24 hours as needed. They told me to do it every other day instead.

The label also says to discontinue if fish show signs of stress while dosing. When I go to get my water checked I will double check that they say to use it. If I do use it I will keep a close eye on the fish for any signs of stress.

I would prefer to not have to use this though.

Also, when I am there I am going to play dumb about their guarentee policy and hopefully they will still give me replacements. Something about I didnt know they had a guarentee and I wish I had kept the fish.

EDIT---
Well, not to try and screw them, but I actually wasn't completely aware of their guarentee. I knew they had one but I thought it was only a few days. When my first cardinal died the first night (he was injured) I figured it would cost me as much in gas to go get the replacement as it would to just buy another one next time I had to go there.

Last night when another one died I figured it was past the guarentee anyways.

 

[tstenback]

sorry i missed that in the earlier post ) . It may indicate ICH and it would be good to catch it early. I think that i would still wait a day or so before using it just to make sure, but i know you are anxious about the fish so do as you think you must and watch the fish for signs of stress and ICH. Good Luck

 

[jiffy]

No problem.

I am going to go get my water tested right now and see how it all turns out. I also think I will take your advice and wait an extra day before I start dosing just incase the water change perks him up some.

Fingers crossed that they give me replacements (although right now may not be the best time to put new fish in the tank)

 

[tstenback]

true but you could just ask for credit and when you are satisfied everything is fine use that credit to get the new cards.

 

[jiffy]

Well, I just got back from the LFS. Some good news too. Everything they tested came out good they said, so it's not my water. They explained how cardinals are one of the more delicate fish and it was/is probably just that and nothing that I did.

Also, it turns out that whenever they get new cardinals in they quarrentine them for a day to make sure they aren't too stressed and watch for any illness.

tstenback, you will be happy about this part too. The guy that helped me when I was there said not to use the rid-ich. He said you only want to use something like that if you know there is a problem and more than one fish is experienceing problems of it. Kinda wish I hadn't bought the rid-ich, although it was only 2 bucks and it may come in handy in the future and then I won't have to worry about going to buy it.

He said to give the fish another day or so to perk up and if it doesn't start looking better to euthanize it. He said it would be better to do this than to possibly cause problems for the other fish which seem to be healthy.

And, he asked how long after I bought them did they die. I said one the first night and the second on the 6th day. So, he offered to give me a refund. I was about to bring up the guarentee, but he did it for me. He didn't even ask if I had the fish, just for my reciept (which he didn't even really look at). So, that made me a little happier.

He said he would give me a refund instead of the fish because (just like I was thinking) now is not the best time to add more fish. He said to wait a week after things are looking good again before I add any more fish.

And the last comment I would like to make is to say thank you tstenback, and everyone on this forum. Being new to fishkeeping, this site and the people on it have proved invaluable. Just the advice that I got from this post alone from luxum and tstenback helped greatly when I went to the LFS. I actually knew what I was talking about.

The guy at the LFS seemed rather enthused that I semi knew what I was talking about and that I keep up on my maintence. I told him I did a small waterchange when I saw the one sick fish and that I was going to do another one and a gravel vacuum today. Turns out he was just about to recomend I do this. He also asked how often I feed, and I said twice a day but I was thinking about cutting back to once a day (look at one of my earlier posts in this thread) and he said, exactly.

He said it was good I have done my research and I should have very healthy tanks if I keep up the good work. He also asked where I did my research and I told him about this forum.

I think that the advice I have gotten in this forum, as well as reading other peoples posts (and some outside research too), has helped me avoid a lot of trouble that newbies typically make. Sure, I have lost 2 fish in the past week and have another one that is ill, but as far as the opinions I have gotten so far I am doing everything properly and it was nothing I could have done.

So, I just want to thank everyone on this forum for all the advice and opinions they have given. It really is a great resource for anyone, new or old to the hobby to be able to check out this site.

Thank you
Jiffy

 

[tstenback]

Great news Keep up the great work on your tanks and you will have a very rewarding future in the hobby. That LFS employee sounds like a keeper to me.