Sick angel

[living_dead]

My angel won't eat a thing. He's about 5 and I have put him in a 10 gallon tank because he had some fungus on him and I have treated him. Seems to be acting alright. But he won't eat anything. Usually loves his flakes but now he wont' touch them and I bought a some tubeflex worms, still no biting. The other angel loved then in the main tank. I dunno whats wrong with my guy. He is very pale most of the time. Although he does get his color back when I get close to the tank. I dunno what to do. Is he maybe home sick? He seems to be cured of the fungus should I put him back in the other tank? Help!

 

[Cian McLiam]

Hi, I wouldnt put him back until he is feeding again. I would raise the temp to 84F and add a quater dose of quick cure or some other general anti parasite med.
Have you noticed any stringy pale poo? this is a sign of internal parasites, I would not put him back into the main tank until this stops.
The higher temp should give the immune system a kick start and get him feeding again as metabolism speeds up. If he doesnt eat the food, remove it immediately, they rarely go back for food thats sitting around for a while.
When you say 5, do you mean age? 5 is pretty old for domestic bred angels, though they can live a lot longer the countless generations of inbreeding leads to bad health in old age.

Ken

 

[living_dead]

Yeah he is around 5 years old had him since he was about 1-2 months old. I knew a breeder and I got 10 angel fry I only have 2 left. I'll raise the temp and see how it works out. What kinda of med would you suggest?

 

[AquaNut]

The best antiparasitic med for use on angels, ime, is metronidazole. I'd also add some aquarium salt to the water - about 2 tablespoons. Were the tubifex worms live? If not, I'd try some live food; my angels never turn down mosquito larvae or bloodworms. Newborn guppy fry usually work on the most stubborn angels. He is definitely getting to be a senior citizen, but I wouldn't give up on him. It's not unusual for angels to get pouty and go on hunger strikes. If his feces aren't white and stringy and he looks healthy in every other way, it may be that he's just really miserable in his confined quarters and is sulking.

 

[living_dead]

I have put some aqurium salt in as well as raised the temp to 80. It was a freeze dried cube of worms. I think it has been about a week since he has eaten anything. Still swimming around. He might be taking bites out of the plant I have in with him. But I have not noticed. His/Her fins look good and seem to have good color. So I dunno. He/She is improving in condition but still not sure about.

 

[gto_cowgirl]

I had a quarter-half dollar sized angel about a month ago until she died from eating freeze dried tubifex worms. Tubifex worms are grown in chicken manure and are not sanitized therefore an internal bacteria problem can arise easily.

My angel slowly stopped eating, everything else looked fine but not eating then one day her abdomen/tummy swelled very big and the next day she died from internal bacteria infection.

Since then i have thrown out the tubifex worms and recommend you do the same. My angelfish was very healthy until i gave her tubifex worms. So just a piece of warning when using that kind of fish food be careful.

 

[AquaNut]

living dead - I would try giving him something live.. anything live. Sometimes they have to be tempted into eating again once they've gone on a hunger strike or they'll just allow themselves to starve. I'm hesitant to tell you to put it back in with your other angel, in case there is a parasitic problem which needs to be addressed, but I'm almost more hesitant to tell you to leave it in the 10 gallon for continued treatment. I'm highly suspicious that he's not eating because he's mad about his current location.

 

[living_dead]

I just bought the tube flex worms yesterday to try to get him to eat something. I think I agree that its his enviornment. For a long time I just had to 2 angels in my big tank. Then I dropped in a few mollies and he got really shy and didn't eat as much. I dunno if he just doesn't like being around other fish? He is becomming more active in the 10 gallon which is more than enough room for him at the moment. I'm gonna buy metronidazole tomorrow and treat him. And if things look ok hopefully move him back with his buddy mid this week, I'll also get some live thing for him to snack on. Thanks for the help

 

[gto_cowgirl]

I forgot to mention earlier about live food. It's fine to feed fish live food but usually you need to QT the live food for a little while to make sure you don't feed your fish any diseases. I've heard of some bad experiences with live food and with chain pet stores, their fish is usually not in top notch anyway.

Maybe the fastest thing to do is to grow your own live food that way you don't have to wait for the QT feeder fish and you know you are feeding your fish safe food. Usually in pet stores i see brine shrimp eggs for sale, there may also be some live worms which i think are safer than feeder fish but I don't know from experience just from reading around.

Also, might want to try frozen food. Live food is definately the best thing to feed fish but like i said there are risks. Sometimes frozen food can work as well but it's up to you. Frozen Beef Heart is pretty healthy for angels in perticular.

I have an angel right now well use to not be eating very well but i'm pretty sure it's because his mate died from like i said earlier tubifex worms. Anyway i moved the angel to the QT and started doing daily water changes. Your water params might be fine but daily water changes prevent the bad bacteria that is always in your tank from adding up as much and helps the fish not succumb to other diseases.

Next thing I did was give the angel different types of food. I see you tried that but not the right food. Angels love brine shrimp and blood worms especially. Usually i sat right in front of the tank and gave the fish just a bite of food and waited until the angel ate it until i feed the angel more. That way i don't put to much food in there and you can tell right away if your angel is eating. Keep trying different types of food until your angel responds to it.

Also, you might want to try adding some aquarium salt to your QT to help relieve any stress. If you don't have any scaleless fish (ie loaches, plecos, corys) in your tank. Start out with 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons and if the angelfish does not seem any better within a couple of days then you can add it to where it's 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. Salt also helps with destroying some diseases.

One more thing, Angelfish need a variety in their diet. If you feed them flake food to long then they will start to get tired of it. Also if you only feed them flake food then when they get sick they won't try other foods because they are not use to it. My angelfish take a couple of tries with any new food before they will actually touch it and that is when they are healthy. Usually i add a little bit of flake with the new food and slowly they will try a little and begin to like it.

If i'm not mistaken, don't mollies live in brackish water? I have read that several places where they need constant salt in their aquarium. Angels of course can handle salt constantly and even up to 1 tablespoon per 1 gallon but if you use salt constantly then when your angels or any other fish you keep in your tank get sick then salt can't be used as a treatment or remedy to help because your fish will be use to it. Also, you do know angels require their tank to be the min of 80 degrees? I'm not sure if mollies like warm water. You might want to check into what mollies water conditions are and make sure angels and mollies are compatible in the same environment. That may be one of your problems.

You should try to watch your angelfish and see if you can catch the angel when it's using the restroom. That may seem a little gross but you don't want to medicate a fish that isn't sick. If your fish is just stressed out by all that has happened or new fish then medicating is not the answer. If it's an internal parasite then the poop will be white/colorless and stringy unlike normal conditions where it is opaque, solid and green/brown (depends on what the angel has been eating).

Angelfish colors tend to change when their moods change. I don't know if that is what your angelfish is doing or it's just pale. I have never had a pale angelfish that i know of. But angelfish colors do change often especially when they are protecting their young.

 

[living_dead]

Thats interesting to know. For the past 5 years my tanks been at 74 degrees. The Angels never had a problem and grew as big as they could. When I was looking around on sites it said it was ok for angels and mollies to be in the same tank. I'm putting in a 1/4 of the recommended salt on my usualy water change. The mollies are fine like this or atleast they sure act like it. I have the sick angel in a 10 gallon all by itself, I've added salt and raised the temp. I think I will raise the temp in my main tank if the mollies will handle it. I will check around for that. I think that this angel just doens't enjoy the change of enviornment. For the the last year or so its just been the 2 angels together, I noticed that the sick angel got very shy when I introduced the mollies. I'm not sure why this is. Just maybe he was not used to it. I don't think he should stay in the 10 gallon for more than a week or so. I've been doing normal water change (sorry i'm just listing things, no order) in the 10 gallon about 10-15% a day. His condition is slowly improving. I hope I can move him back into the big tank. After about a 60% change in the 10 gallon and adding carbon back to the filter I will put some of the mollies in the tank probably 2 females since they are preggy. Maybe not having as many fish with this angel will be a wise idea.

 

[gto_cowgirl]

I started owning angelfish a couple of months ago and read everything i could about angelfish.

I suggest you search this forum on what i mentioned before and you will find out that many profession angelfish breeders agree with me especially on the temp. Most angelfish like warm water that is 80-82 degrees. If you don't have your water that high then it compromises the angelfish immune system which in turn gives you more problems.

You can also search for the mollies environment because i don't know for sure just think i have read it several places that mollies live in colder brackish water.

Salt will not hurt fish with scales but some do not like it as much as angels can handle. I suggest you look up as much information on fish forums about mollies as i do not know for sure what they like. Just because mollies don't act differently does not mean they are any more happier. What may seem happy to you may be different to someone else because they may have seen happier.

Your only using 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons? That is not effective. If you use salt you have to use it at higher concentrations for it to be effective. Let me find a couple of more sites some people have given me on salt and treatments. Here i found it:

Salt and Salt Treatments


Moving angelfish back and forth from different tanks is only going to stress that angelfish out. You should not be in a hurry to move the angel back to the other tank if there is something wrong with the angel. If the angel is mad at you about location well he will get over it with different types of food such as i suggested. If the angel is only stressed out and you move him back without giving it enough time to settle down in a new place then you are only adding to the problem.

I do 50-75% daily water changes with any fish that appears not well in any way including not eating as much. That does sound like a high water change but it is my preference because i want to do enough to get rid of most of the bad bacteria daily. Many people do not agree with this high of a water change on these boards but on other forums people tend to agree more so do what you will with my advice. I understand the risks of a high water change straight from the tap as the oxygen rises out of the water and may get in the fishes gills but i have yet to have a problem because of that. I have to warn you though that my water does not change from straight from the tap to a day after with aeration.

Also, let me mention the carbon factor. You do not need carbon in your filters unless you are removing meds. If you keep carbon in your filters daily and do not change them at least once a month then the toxins that the carbon collected from the water will spill back out and hurt your fish. Just wanted to let you know. On those forums i listed, it has a complete article devoted to just carbon in the filter.

 

[AquaNut]

I hate to hand out contradicting advice because I think it often just confuses the person who was seeking help in the first place, but I really don't think there can be too terribly much wrong with the way living_dead has been caring for his/her angels, considering that they're now five years old. That's a respectable accomplishment on its own. However, gto is correct about the angels enjoying warmer water. However, mollies will be fine in warmer water as well. 78 would be fine for both. How big is your tank, living_dead? Mollies can be somewhat aggressive and nippy and may well have stressed your angel, it would probably depend a fair bit on how much space they have to share. I do have to disagree with gto with regards to keeping the angel in the 10 gallon, though. I respect that she has been doing lots of online research to help her with her angels, but I've been keeping angels for years and I know that a full grown angel isn't likely to start eating or behaving properly in a 10 gallon tank; it's simply too small. If you've treated with the metro and are fairly confident that there is not an ongoing parasitic or bacterial problem, I'd move the angel back home asap. Also gto - I presume living_dead referred to using carbon because there are meds which need to be removed from the tank.

 

[living_dead]

My angel isn't to large regrettfullly, I only have a 29 gallon tank which has limited his growth. The 10 gallon is more than enough room for it. Most of my money has gone to my pond. Which do the my mother is only 300 gallons, but has huge koi in it (they won't stop growing, gonna be a problem). I was only using the carbon to clean. I think that moving the water up to 78 will be fine with the angel and the mollies. There is an aggressive female molly that chases the other angel once and a while. But the other angel often just get tired of it and nipps the molly back and its done. The angels really do rule the roost even if one is sick. They don't harm each other, just annoy. My angels are very odd, they tend not to swim around and just sit in a corner of the tank and look at me. I guess they are just really old. I wonder if the constant activity for the mollies is a problem with the angels style of life? Lol, can't read into this much they are only fish. I think I will move the sick angel back in shortly since he is looking much better and doesn't seem to be sick anymore. Which should make it happy, I'm going out today to buy some brineshrimp and some other tastey bits of food for him.

 

[gto_cowgirl]

Your right in saying that the fish has lived 5 years but that doesn't always means that the fish has lived the happiest. I have read that angels can live up to 15 years but i know that it has been shortened due to inbreeding.

I have read on those forums that i listed about several breeders keeping 2 adult angels in a 10 gallons. They mentioned that these were not fully grown as angels can get just small adults at the moment but these fish were doing fine in a 10 gallon and even breeding. I'm not saying that you should keep angels in a 10 gallon for long periods of time, i know that angels needs lots of room to swim around. I am mentioning this to let you know that i have read several reports of angels being fine in a 10 gallon.

I didn't know if he had meds in the other tank or not. I was just mentioning a fact that many fish keepers don't know, that carbon isn't needed in a tank if it isn't there for med removal.

I think that living_dead was doing fine with the angels except not warmer waters. Everything else seemed fine but i did notice mollies and yes i thought about them being fin nippers. So just watch out for that and i think its fine. I do try to do a lot of research on fish that i own so that i can be prepared in case anything should happen. I know that i don't have experience to show many things i say but i have researched it and it's a start. Hopefully I will gain the experience in time.