Siamese Fighting Fish Not Too Well

nick1986

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Hi I have an Siamese fighting fish and its not been to well for a few weeks now it was a bit lethargic just floating not moving much but always eating when fed. so iv been changing the water every few days and been adding the bio enhancer and the water conditioner as per instructions on bottle. but over last few days its starting to lose its colour (half looks white ish now )  and the end of its top fin has fallen off today. so I am stuck don't have a clue what it is this is my 1st fish tank apart from a goldfish I had as a kid.
 
iv had the fish for 6 months now and its been ok. it did kill all the tetra neons in the tank few months back.
 
 iv added an pdf with the photo in as I cant upload just the photo as to large.
 
Any help would be perfect don't want it to die as come quite attached to it comes to the top in the corner of the tank when I come down in the morning for its food like a little dog lol.
 

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Could you give us a little more info as to the size of tank he is in and water temp, looking at the pic he appears to be bloated it looks more like overfeeding than dropsy unless his scales are sticking out? I would fast him for a couple of days and wait for his belly to reduce, you could try feeding him a bit of pea as he may be constipated but nothing else, as for the pale colouration he may just have marble genes as I can see his face is pale or it may be something more sinister but for now keep his water clean and warm and hold off the food.
 
water temp is 26 c all the time, 25 L chi tank. its only over last few weeks hes starting to look pail and his top fin has gone an idea why that can be.
 
Any chance you could get a Nitrite and Ammonia reading?
 
nick1986 said:
water temp is 26 c all the time, 25 L chi tank. its only over last few weeks hes starting to look pail and his top fin has gone an idea why that can be.
Ok tank and temp look ok, is there any other fish in there with him? he may have bitten the top fin off himself as I can see his tail looks a bit chewed too, bettas will fin shred if stressed for some reason or another.
 
Can you get a pic with you looking down over top of him?  That will allow us to get a better look at his dorsal (top) fin and to see if he is pineconing at all.
At this point I would stop feeding for at least 3 days to see if his belly goes down.  
Not sure exactly what is going on with your boy yet.  If you can get us a reading for ammonia and nitrite that would help.  Is he flashing(scratching himself) on things?  Clamping his fins up?  Swimming erratically?
How do you measure the temperature?  Internal thermometer or exterior strip on the tank?  Do you have a heater in the tank to regulate the temperature?  
What are you feeding and how much each time?
 
Hi I have an 100w heater in the tank its set to 24 c but I also have a external strip thermometer that reads 26 most of the time. it was just him and an little cleaning type fish don't know what it is. only about 2 inch long looks like a mini shark stays at bottom of the tank sucking the rocks. I bought 6 little guppies type thing yesterday  ( thought he was getting lonely )  but that's all I have in there, did have 18 neons in there but he killed them over 2 days few months back no idea why as had been in the tank with him for few months.
 
food wise I have been giving him Love fish tropical fish flakes, most of the time. feed him 1 to 2 times a day small pinch. but went to my local fish store yesterday and asked the guy there and he said it could be his diet making him look pail so I bought some frozen shrimp things ( looks like a oxo cube but smaller ) only put one in he was not interested but the sucker fish loved it.
 
 
hes not scratching himself or anything like that he just seems depressed sounds mad I know but that's all I can really say. he just floats there almost looking like hes dead but then every now and again he will go for a little swim. other day I thought he was dead a the top of the tank blew the water didn't move so I tapped him god did he move. He has been darting round the tank a bit more last few day.
 
ammonia and nitrate reading il have to take some water down to the fish shop tomorrow see to get tested. and il post back there good there they test 4 or 5 thing. yesterday I took some down didn't ask for the reading (need to do it before they will sell u fish) just said it was fine.
 
 
Il sort the photo out and post it tomorrow as my phone images are far to large to post.
 
can I just ask one more thing how often should I be cleaning the water I normally do a 50~70% water change every 10 ish days. and new filters and sponge type of thing ever 2nd change. Does that sound right to you? 
 
Ok.  
 
The external strip thermometers are not very accurate for telling the water temperature inside the tank.  They are great for a quick glance to make sure things haven't went really bad but otherwise you really need an internal thermometer.  A glass one with a suction cup tend to be fairly cheap and work nicely.  If the heater is set to 24C and the water is actually closer to that temperature than the 26C, then that could be a small part of the problem since 24C is a bit cool for a betta.  25C-27C is the preferred water temperature for the betta to stay healthiest.  
 
In the tank size you have, it might be best to keep the betta by himself.  If he has already been known to kill other fish then he probably will be aggressive to the ones you recently added or be stressed out by them.  The shark-like sucker fish most likely is not suited for a tank this small.  And depending on which kind of fish it is, could be contributing to high ammonia levels in the tank since they tend to be very messy fish.
 
Flakes and freeze dried foods (what the cubes you recently bought sound like) are not the best for bettas as they contribute to overfeeding, bloating, and constipation.  As well as potential to foul the tank with uneaten food -- cause a "pinch" is hard to measure the true amount you are feeding.  I recommend a pellet food made specifically for bettas with the first few ingredients not being "fish meal" or any other time of grain product.  Supplementing with frozen or live foods are other nice options for you.  
 
The lethargy, hanging out at the surface, and going pale are not what I what call "normal" behavior especially if he has not been this way the whole time you have had him.  The fact that he is so bloated could be part of the issue but doesn't really explain the paleness.  
 
As far as your last question(s) -- with the stocking you currently have I recommend at the least 50% once a week but depending on the results of the water test from the fish store (make sure they tell you the actual results not just "everything is fine" ect) you might have to do water changes more often.  What might also be part of your problem is that you are completely cleaning and replacing filter pads/sponges at least once a month.  If the tank was cycled, then doing this will kill your cycle since the majority of your bacteria live in the filter media.  It is just best to rinse the filter media/sponges in the discarded tank water and then put them back into the filter.  That works nicely until the media/sponge is literally falling apart -- at which time you replace that piece -- just not all the media at one time.  
 
A picture of your "shark-like" sucker fish would be a good idea as well so that it can be identified.
 
here is an photo of the sucker fish. its about 1.5 inch long. the guy in the shop said it would help to keep the tank clean I bought the tank the heater and all the fish a week later.
 
and top photo of the fighter.
 
What food make / brand do you recommend for it. il attach an photo of the frozen food on ext post as used up all the space
 

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food I got for fighter
 

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Your sucker fish looks to be otocinclus catfish.  These stay small and have a small bioload.  However they really need a bigger tank and a group of at least 6 of them to be at their best.  

The frozen food is good.  A good pellet food is best for everyday feeding though with the frozen brine being given once or twice a week.  When giving the frozen, you will only need a very small bit off of the cube.
 
Now for your betta,  he actually looks like he probably has a bacterial infection.  I suggest getting an antibiotic medication that treats gram negative bacteria.  Since you are not in the area I am, I do not know what you have access to or I would recommend a specific medication.
 
OK I don't have very much experience with Betta's but wildbettas advice I would recommend you follow, just a quick rinse of your filter in the tank water you remove keeps all the 'good' bacteria in there, changing them every few weeks you are basically re-cycling your tank each time you do so.

Also you can buy a digital thermometer on eBay for a few £, the one I got sits nicely in my tank and displays a more accurate temp, the usual stick on one's tend to display a mix of tank and room temp and are not really that reliable.

As I said I don't have much experience with Betta's but my brother has a small set up with a beautiful purpley blue Betta he feeds him tetra Betta pellets also available on eBay but your LFS should stock them or other Betta pellets, he feeds his 2-3 of these per day.

For bacterial infections I would highly recommend esha2000, also should be available in your LFS or on eBay, you should remove any carbon in your filter before adding any medicine to your tank as it can remove it so it won't be 100% affective. Make sure you add the right amount to your tank as overdoseing can be dangerous.

Hope this helps and good luck getting your little fella on the mend :)
 
Hi thanks so much for that am ordering the stuff you have suggested off ebay now should be here next few days.
 
il keep you posted on how hes doing
 
again thank you for the help!!!!
 
didn't get the water done today have been mad busy
 
is the stuff in the photo the right stuff for him?
 

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It's OK, this forum has helped me heaps with brilliant advice from really friendly people, it's nice to be able to help rather than the one needing help for a change lol!

And thats the stuff, it's fantastic I've used it a couple of times and both times I've used it I've not lost any fish (touch wood!) it really is IMO the best you can buy.

Good luck! :)
 
this is what looked like before he got sick.
 
will he ever look like this again?
 

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