Siamese Algae Eaters

[508]

Picked up one of these guys from my LFS today. It's only his first day but he's been quite inactive and seems to be resting on the substrate a lot. Anyway I wanted to find out whether these guys can be kept alone? Every website has a different opinion on this ._.

 

[Gvilleguy]

subscribe. I'm thinking of getting one in my 40 G community.

 

[betta fish]

I had one on it's own but I have read they are a sociable species, I eventually sold the tank with the fish as it had grown rather large but I was very fond of it, it did pester my other fish somewhat which may have been lessened if it had company of it's own kind as they are quite boisterous but do have rest periods where they sit about doing nothing 

 

[508]

I had one on it's own but I have read they are a sociable species, I eventually sold the tank with the fish as it had grown rather large but I was very fond of it, it did pester my other fish somewhat which may have been lessened if it had company of it's own kind as they are quite boisterous but do have rest periods where they sit about doing nothing 

 
Perhaps it was a regular flying fox? I always thought SAE were peaceful and didn't bother any other fish too much. 

 

[Byron]

There is considerable confusion over which species is "Siamese Algae Eater" and one cannot trust stores unless they have the scientific name, and even then...be cautious.  I'll answer your initial questions with some data previously researched for another site's profile, hope this helps.
 
The common name Siamese Algae Eater is regularly applied to several related but distinct species. The species Crossocheilus langei is the one most often encountered in the hobby as the Siamese Algae Eater [SAE] and is the best at eating black brush [aka red beard] algae. The "true" SAE is actually Crossocheilus siamensis, a species initially described by H.M. Smith in 1931 as Epalzeorhynchus siamensis and moved by Banarescu into the genus Crossocheilus in 1986, and which has probably never been seen by hobbyists since the holotype [the specimen collected and used for the description] is the only one known. To further confuse, C. siamensis is now considered a synonym for the actual species name, Crossocheilus oblongus.
 
Confusion abounds with this fish, beyond the fore-going. There are several near-identical species within Crossocheilus, and they are occasionally seen in the hobby. Their usefulness as "algae eaters" is variable, depending upon the species. Then there are two other fish often confused with the SAE, known as the False Siamese Algae Eater, Garra cambodgiensis, and the Flying Fox, Epalzeorhynchos kalopterus. Both of these regularly appear in the hobby, but neither will handle brush/beard algae like the common SAE. The False SAE can be distinguished by the dark lateral band that ends at the caudal peduncle whereas on the subject fish this band continues into the caudal fin. The Flying Fox has white-edged red and black coloured fins, not clear fins as in the subject species.
 
Then there is theChinese Algae Eater, a fish that is sometimes offered as a "SAE." It is much less desirable for several reasons including its rather nasty temperament as it ages, and it doesn't eat algae except when juvenile.  Species is Gyrinocheilus aymonieri.

This fish occurs in flowing waters and is intolerant of high nitrates and any build-up of organic waste, requiring clean, well-oxygenated water; it is an active swimmer and thus needs space. It will therefore be best in a river or stream aquascape having a reasonable current from the filter along with a substrate of gravel, sand and pebbles, with larger rocks simulating boulders and some bogwood added. As noted, it should be kept in a group of 6 or more so that the natural interaction between fish can be enjoyed.
 
Generally peaceful, suitable for the larger community aquarium with other peaceful fishes such as barbs, danios and most loaches. A shoaling fish by nature, it does best in a group of 6 or more and a distinct hierarchy will be formed within the group.  This fish will attain six inches, and should have a 4-foot tank.
 
Byron.

 

[508]

There is considerable confusion over which species is "Siamese Algae Eater" and one cannot trust stores unless they have the scientific name, and even then...be cautious.  I'll answer your initial questions with some data previously researched for another site's profile, hope this helps.
 
The common name Siamese Algae Eater is regularly applied to several related but distinct species. The species Crossocheilus langei is the one most often encountered in the hobby as the Siamese Algae Eater [SAE] and is the best at eating black brush [aka red beard] algae. The "true" SAE is actually Crossocheilus siamensis, a species initially described by H.M. Smith in 1931 as Epalzeorhynchus siamensis and moved by Banarescu into the genus Crossocheilus in 1986, and which has probably never been seen by hobbyists since the holotype [the specimen collected and used for the description] is the only one known. To further confuse, C. siamensis is now considered a synonym for the actual species name, Crossocheilus oblongus.
 
Confusion abounds with this fish, beyond the fore-going. There are several near-identical species within Crossocheilus, and they are occasionally seen in the hobby. Their usefulness as "algae eaters" is variable, depending upon the species. Then there are two other fish often confused with the SAE, known as the False Siamese Algae Eater, Garra cambodgiensis, and the Flying Fox, Epalzeorhynchos kalopterus. Both of these regularly appear in the hobby, but neither will handle brush/beard algae like the common SAE. The False SAE can be distinguished by the dark lateral band that ends at the caudal peduncle whereas on the subject fish this band continues into the caudal fin. The Flying Fox has white-edged red and black coloured fins, not clear fins as in the subject species.
 
Then there is theChinese Algae Eater, a fish that is sometimes offered as a "SAE." It is much less desirable for several reasons including its rather nasty temperament as it ages, and it doesn't eat algae except when juvenile.  Species is Gyrinocheilus aymonieri.

This fish occurs in flowing waters and is intolerant of high nitrates and any build-up of organic waste, requiring clean, well-oxygenated water; it is an active swimmer and thus needs space. It will therefore be best in a river or stream aquascape having a reasonable current from the filter along with a substrate of gravel, sand and pebbles, with larger rocks simulating boulders and some bogwood added. As noted, it should be kept in a group of 6 or more so that the natural interaction between fish can be enjoyed.
 
Generally peaceful, suitable for the larger community aquarium with other peaceful fishes such as barbs, danios and most loaches. A shoaling fish by nature, it does best in a group of 6 or more and a distinct hierarchy will be formed within the group.  This fish will attain six inches, and should have a 4-foot tank.
 
Byron.

 
I'm absolutely sure it's a true SAE. The stripe alone is enough to identify one. I just don't know whether they do ok alone

 

[ShinySideUp]

Many years ago I bought two of these but one died very quickly and the other one has been on it's own for about ten years. Having said that I do have seven Clown Loaches and the SAE eats and swims with them and is big enough to hold it's own (it's about five inches long); it seems to have thrived with the company.

 

[Akasha72]

Hi, I have three true SAE's - a true SAE will have only one pair of barbels, clear fins, and the lateral line extends into the tail, tapering off at the tail fork. They not only grow large (around 6 inches) but they also have considerable girth. Byron has already given you the best info but I thought I'd just re-iterate it.
 
As for being kept alone - they are said to be a shoaling species, which is the reason I have three, and as Byron has said in his piece a hierarchy will develop. I have one that is definitely the boss and if he/she is in the mood then he/she can be a bit of a bully to the other two. Thankfully my tank is heavily planted and there are places to hide when things get rough.  
Recently on the forum, there was a post about a SAE which was beating up it's mate - to the point of killing it. We recommended that they were seperated perminantly. 
 
I think to answer your question we'd need to consider the tank size. As I've already mentioned, they grow into a big fish and so keeping a group of 6 in a four foot tank (for instance) wouldn't be right, in my opinion. The 3 I have in my 4 foot tank are already looking too big and I wish I was able to give them more space to zoom around in.
 
I hope that's helpful

 

[RobRocksFishTank]

The "true" SAE is actually Crossocheilus siamensis, a species initially described by H.M. Smith in 1931 as Epalzeorhynchus siamensis and moved by Banarescu into the genus Crossocheilus in 1986, and which has probably never been seen by hobbyists since the holotype [the specimen collected and used for the description] is the only one known.

 
If this statement is true, how did you guys get "true" ones?
 
Did you actually mean, Crossocheilus langeii, which is the one most often encountered in the hobby as the Siamese Algae Eater according to the article.

 

[betta fish]

 

I had one on it's own but I have read they are a sociable species, I eventually sold the tank with the fish as it had grown rather large but I was very fond of it, it did pester my other fish somewhat which may have been lessened if it had company of it's own kind as they are quite boisterous but do have rest periods where they sit about doing nothing 

 
Perhaps it was a regular flying fox? I always thought SAE were peaceful and didn't bother any other fish too much. 
 

I am pretty sure it was a true SAE although it was labelled as a flying fox, here is a pic of it, what do you guys think? I must say it was great in curing my tank of black beard algae too, couldn't get enough of the stuff!

 

[Akasha72]

that is a true SAE betta fish - especially if it cleared the BBA. Mine did the same. They couldn't get enough of it either
 
This one of mine
 

 
 
Seriously greedy fat monsters lol

forgot to say, mine were also labelled as 'flying foxes' too. I tried to tell the staff member that they wern't flying foxes that they were siamese algae eaters but was told they were the same fish ...'the siamese flying fox'. Oh dear, no wonder we're confused!

 

[Byron]

 

The "true" SAE is actually Crossocheilus siamensis, a species initially described by H.M. Smith in 1931 as Epalzeorhynchus siamensis and moved by Banarescu into the genus Crossocheilus in 1986, and which has probably never been seen by hobbyists since the holotype [the specimen collected and used for the description] is the only one known.

 
If this statement is true, how did you guys get "true" ones?
 
Did you actually mean, Crossocheilus langeii, which is the one most often encountered in the hobby as the Siamese Algae Eater according to the article.
 

 
I said things were mixed up...

If one assumes the "Siamese Algae Eater" is likely the species carrying the epithet siamensis, that would be the true one.  But as several species in the hobby have been commonly considered "Siamese Algae Eater" aside from this "true" SAE and that species has never been seen and is now considered to be another species (in name) anyway...
 
Fortunately the requirements and behaviours of the several "SAE" species are similar.  There is a smaller one, Crossocheilus atrilimes which was described by Kottelat in 2000 and only attains 70-75 mm or about 3 inches; but this species is said to prefer fine leaf plants to algae.
 
Byron.

 

[Akasha72]

I didn't know there were many more different species. When I was doing my research (I'd heard that the true SAE would eat BBA and that was what I needed - something to help me get rid of it and keep it away) I understood that there was only the Flying Fox, C, Siamensis and the false siamensis. I learnt the subtle differences and learnt that C. Siamensis would eat BBA but the other two would not. The CAE was mentioned but as that had a sucker mouth it was easy to identify. 
 
As far as I was aware, what I have in my tank is C.Siamensis ... now I'm not so sure! I doesn't really matter as they did the job I needed them to do and I still see them nibbling the edges of leaves daily and so they are keeping the BBA away. They will also take flake and algae wafers as way of suplimenting their diet now that they've eradicated the BBA. 
 
My only issue has been the shock of the size this fish grows to. When I got them they were no bigger than my oto's and I had difficulty telling them apart at a quick glance. Now they are as long as my ancistrus and nearly as wide. I'd read that they grew to around 6 inches but I wasn't prepared for them to get so wide aswell

 

[Ch4rlie]

It is often confusing when it comes to identifying SAE as they have many names in LFS and to be honest, you cannot trust any LFS to get their species right as more often than not the staff just assumes whatever is written in the order book is the correct names etc and simply copy that for the labels.
 
I have said this often, but RESEARCH is key when comes to identfying what species you want or have, and taking notes of specific traits, markings, sizes etc will help you in the long run as I have heard of folks thinking they have SAE when they actually have CAE which can be nasty fish to have when they grow.
 
The following two links are of SAE from Seriously Fish, as I believe these two are the most encountered for most hobbiest from LFS, however do note they have similar water requirements but their maximium sizes varies so ensure your tank size is suitable for whichever you choose.
 
Crossocheilus langei
 
Crossocheilus atrilimes

 

[Akasha72]

that's great ch4rlie but it doesn't really say how you can tell them apart and they look identical in the photo's