Should I Be Careful With Water Changes In My Newly Cycled Tank?

[Katch]

I understand that many of you guys perform water changes by draining off the old water (whatever amount you are doing, treating the tank with a good dose of dechlorinator (1.5 x the basic dose)and then filling direct from the tap using a hose.

I'm just wondering if it is safe for me to do this in my newly cycled and stocked tank - or whether I should keep using buckets of treated water to ensure the chlorine is fully gased off before going into the tank? Just until the filter is fully matured.

 

[toshapetriji]

Hmmm very good question.

When I first cycled I immediately began adding the dechlorinator to the tank then topping up the water. I did not have any problems as far as water quality readings are concerned.

It would be interesting to hear what other members have experienced though.

 

[Twinklecaz]

I'd stick to the buckets for now. I'm prob gonna be corrected but I think there is a point with this. I had some Ammonia showings after doing it the first way so I started dechloring in the bucket and it's been fine since. It could be a coincidence and be down to something else but it might not.

I'm sure the first method is fine in mature tanks but I agree newly cycled ones need to be treated a bit more delicately.

 

[elisew]

Was gonna say the same as Twinkle.

 

[waterdrop]

Its perfectly fine to refill the tank directly with tap water but you must calculate your 1.5x to 2x conditioner dosing (we're talking large water changes over 25% here) based on the full tank volume, not the volume of water added. This is because there are organics in the tank water that will dilute the effect of the conditioner in a way that would not happen when it is dosed to a bucket of simple tap water.

Being able to refill the tank using water that is allowed to sit for days however has other decided benefits if you can do it (its a nice advantage that people with small tanks have.) The gas off of the CO2 is quite a nice benefit I feel. This should lower the tendency for black brush algae to get hold in the higher flow areas. It also leads to less pH movement and this might have some good side effects, although I don't say that with anything particular in mind.

So its really each to his own. It can depend on your age, house size, all sorts of wild variables. I have back problems and direct fill is wonderful for me, but I don't like the CO2 variation it causes.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Katch]

I'll have pressurized CO2 by the end of the week so fluctuations of that should be minimal. I'm just concerned that the chlorine and chloramine from the tap wouldn't be neutralized immediately when filling from the tap and may harm the new bacteria colonies.

If i'm doing a 25% change from the tap what do you recommend (when my filter is mature) - 1.5 x dose for 50% volume or 100% volume?

 

[waterdrop]

Oh wow, if you're getting a regulator and tank that'll be great! About the chlorine/chloramine, no, its a common misunderstanding that they are like some sort of poison that could damage things immediately but that's not the case, they are slow-acting and any lag time even if you dosed the conditioner after the fill would likely cause no harm at all. On the other hand it only makes sense to dose some beforehand, I dose half mine right before and half directly afterwards but its just a game I play that I think helps me not ever forget it altogether!

Chlorine/chloramine are dosed in municipal water systems at basically a minimal amount to discourage bacterial growth *within* the pipes. The dosage is not something that typically has a powerful or lasting effect after the water is out of the pipes, although of course chloramine hangs around much longer than chlorine.

Its your own choice, 6 months?, 1 year? (those would be my typical two breakpoints personally) for the period to consider the colonies to be not yet fully mature and thus worth spending some extra pennies on for lower risk by dosing at 1.5x to 2x (but not more than 2x)... but at one of those breakpoints I'd probably drop back to 1x. And yes, when you direct fill, you always dose to the full tank volume no matter what percentage the water change is. I recommend Seachem Prime for that first year and then you could compare its price per treated volume with whatever other concentrated pond dechlor conditioner you could find (it just takes carrying a pencil and paper to the LFS or using your phone perhaps, to do out the calculations while looking at the dosing instructions on the pond conditioners.)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Katch]

Thank you WD

Exactly the response I was after.

 

[Timmy_Bee]

Oh dear. I have been doing the 'treat after' aproach, but only been dosing for the new water (not whole tank...)
Have i been killing my bacteria?

 

[waterdrop]

Oh dear. I have been doing the 'treat after' aproach, but only been dosing for the new water (not whole tank...)
Have i been killing my bacteria?

It depends on if you are treating the new tap water in buckets (in which case you just calculate the 1.5x dose per the bucket volume) or whether you are using a hose to direct-fill the tank itself. If you direct-fill the tank then you need to calculate the conditioner dose based on the full tank volume, no matter what percentage of water you add. Adding the conditioner directly after should be fine although I'd think immediately before would be preferable just based on common sense.

All of this is about risk reduction, not things that are absolute in nature. No single water change that is done without conditioner is necessarily going to cause damage. What we are after is a risk-lowering habit so that on some random day when the water guys in your town decide to "shock" the system with a bunch of extra chloramine (perhaps to react to an elevated bacterial count result they've received) your habit will hopefully protect you from a bunch of gill-burn to your fish or a loss of some of your filter bacterial colonies.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Timmy_Bee]

stupidly enought, i have been adding the water in buckets (well those 'flexi-tub' things - much bigger than a bucket!) but been too lazy to add the de-chlor until i have added all the new water, then add it directly to the tank
I think i'll stop being so lazy...

 

[waterdrop]

stupidly enought, i have been adding the water in buckets (well those 'flexi-tub' things - much bigger than a bucket!) but been too lazy to add the de-chlor until i have added all the new water, then add it directly to the tank
I think i'll stop being so lazy...

How many buckets do you add? Well, regardless, you might consider letting at least the first bucket air overnight (loosely covered for dust I suppose) to let the CO2 gas off (my pet peeve since it contributes to BBA.) I'd still do conditioner of course because of chloramine (even in the few places where they still use chlorine I worry about them switching to chloramine unannounced.) 'course you could do a hose system and make work easier, lol. WD

 

[Timmy_Bee]

i do 2 - 3 'buckets' because each one is a good 25 - 30 litres, so 3 would be ~50% change (my bogwood is still releasing lots of tannins so i do ~50% weekly to keep the water clear)
I looked into a DIY Python, but forgot about it when i got my flexi-tub. Before that i was using a 10L bucket and that was a pain! but might just attach a hose to the kitchen tap and re-fill with the hose, but remove using the buckets... If i were to do this, i would need to de-chlor for the whole 180L capacity?

P.s whats BBA? the first acronym that pops into my head would be Big Bad Algae, but it might be more scientific...

 

[waterdrop]

definately a -little- more scientific.. Black Brush Algae

(note: my comment about it was really pretty off topic to your subject but is just something I've encountered)

(note also that one of the most fundamental and useful things I think for beginners to understand about algae is that whereas virtually all the many types of algae are CAUSED by LIGHT + AMMONIA (ammonia in quantities smaller than what our test kits measure, by the way)...

...the TREATING of the problem is best done on a species by species basis, ie. when you are fighting a particular type of algae it helps to understand particulars about the life and habits of that algae type and what specific things people have found to help with -that particular type- )

(sorry, I'm -still off-topic to your water changing topic, aren't I )