Shop says no - nitrates too high

[Essjay]

you might get ammonia in a chemists

I got mine from my local DIY shop. (Jeyes KleenOff Household Ammonia) Ammonia is also sold on Amazon and Ebay but be careful - it must not contain any detergent/surfactant or perfume.




In very simple terms, fish excrete ammonia as their equivalent of urine. This is poisonous to them. In an established tank there is a colony of bacteria which eat ammonia and poop out nitrite, which is also poisonous to fish. In an established tank there is another colony of bacteria which eat this nitrite and they poop out nitrate. There are no bacteria which eat nitrate so we have to remove it with water changes.
In a brand new tank, there are no bacteria; we have to grow them. We do this by adding ammonia from a bottle and this feeds the very few bacteria in the water, or those in a bottle of Tetra Safe Start so they can multiply and grow a lot more of them. The process of growing the bacteria is called cycling.
In a brand new tank there is no ammonia or nitrite because there are no fish to make ammonia and no bacteria to make nitrite so when a tank without fish is tested the results look perfect. If fish are then put in the tank without growing the bacteria first, the water very quickly becomes non-perfect.

Nitrate is a bit more complicated because a lot of places have a high amount of it in tap water. So when we fill the tank we can add a lot of nitrate. UK legislation allows a maximum of 50 ppm in drinking water and may places in the UK have levels almost that high. We must always measure nitrate in tap water so we know how much of the nitrate in the tank comes from the tap water and how much is being made in the tank.
Please test your tap water for nitrate so we know how much in in there.
The API test strip instructions are out of date. They say nitrate must be under 40 ppm but we now know that the maximum should be 20 ppm not 40. This may be what the shop is questioning. If they know that nitrate should be under 20, your tank level is double that.

 

[Essjay]

you can find a calculator online which will tell you how much ammonia you will need to add.

There is an ammonia calculator on this forum, the last section here: https://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm

 

[Paige2906]

OK, one thing I'm still confused at is how the guy in the shop said the nitrates are high? Surely they are low which is what you guys are saying. And also the strips are showing.

 

[Paige2906]

There is an ammonia calculator on this forum, the last section here: https://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm

I just used this and I'll be honest I haven't a foggy what it all means.

 

[Essjay]

We now know that 40 ppm is too high - it should be under 20 ppm to be safe for fish. Ignore what the strip instrcutions say, they are pout of date in their advice.

I have already asked this, but can you test the nitrate level in your tap water please.



The calculator is to tell you how much ammonia you need to add from a bottle in order to grow the bacteria. enter the volume of your tank and it tells you how many mls ammonia you need to add.

 

[Essjay]

Can we start again at the beginning please.



#1 Your strips measure 40 ppm nitrate in your tank. But we should have nitrate under 20 ppm for fish health. That 40 ppm may be the amount in your tap water or it may be somehow being made in your tank.

#2 Have you added any plant fertiliser and if so, what is it.

#3 You have a number of live plants in your tank. Some of them look like slow growing plants but others look to be fast growers. Can you list the plants you have, please.

#4 We have already described how bacteria 'eat' the ammonia excreted by future fish, but plants also take up ammonia as fertiliser - and they don't turn it into ammonia or nitrate.

#5 Members have described how to do a fishless cycle using ammonia, but there is also a silent cycle which relies on live plants.

#6 With a silent cycle, the tank is planted heavily - more than you have at the moment. Then we wait until the plants show signs of active growth. Once we know the plants aren't about to die, we than get fish a few at a time, and test every day after each batch of fish for ammonia and nitrite just to make sure they don't show up.

#7 But this still leaves the high nitrate and the shop refusing to sell you fish.

#8 The nitrate may come from yuor tap water. Please can you test your tap water for nitrate. Once we know how high that is, we'll be able to go forwards.

 

[Paige2906]

Can we start again at the beginning please.



#1 Your strips measure 40 ppm nitrate in your tank. But we should have nitrate under 20 ppm for fish health. That 40 ppm may be the amount in your tap water or it may be somehow being made in your tank.

#2 Have you added any plant fertiliser and if so, what is it.

#3 You have a number of live plants in your tank. Some of them look like slow growing plants but others look to be fast growers. Can you list the plants you have, please.

#4 We have already described how bacteria 'eat' the ammonia excreted by future fish, but plants also take up ammonia as fertiliser - and they don't turn it into ammonia or nitrate.

#5 Members have described how to do a fishless cycle using ammonia, but there is also a silent cycle which relies on live plants.

#6 With a silent cycle, the tank is planted heavily - more than you have at the moment. Then we wait until the plants show signs of active growth. Once we know the plants aren't about to die, we than get fish a few at a time, and test every day after each batch of fish for ammonia and nitrite just to make sure they don't show up.

#7 But this still leaves the high nitrate and the shop refusing to sell you fish.

#8 The nitrate may come from yuor tap water. Please can you test your tap water for nitrate. Once we know how high that is, we'll be able to go forwards.

Sorry yes it has got all complex...

#1. No no, the strips measure less than what is needed for nitrate. However the shop said the nitrate levels are too high.

#2. I have not added any plant fertislier.

#3. I'm sorry, I don't remember what the plants are called. I'm not sure they had names on the label but I know at least 2 of 5 I initially bought were fast growers at the very least.

#8. I have attached a photo of the tap water test strip.

 

[Essjay]

OK, so the 2 photos you have posted (tank and tap strips) both show nitrate at 40 ppm. That';s where the nitrate in the tank is coming from.

Did the shop tell you their reading, or did they just say it was too high?
And what did they use to test it, strips or liquid reagents and test tubes?


More questions, I'm afraid -
What is the expiry date on the pack of strips?
Have they been kept nice and dry or is there any chance they could have become damp?
This may sound like an odd question, but who is your water company (I do have a reason for asking....)



(I asked about plant fertiliser as another member couldn't work out how he had high nitrate - it turned out he was adding a fertiliser which had nitrate in it)

 

[Paige2906]

OK, so the 2 photos you have posted (tank and tap strips) both show nitrate at 40 ppm. That';s where the nitrate in the tank is coming from.

Did the shop tell you their reading, or did they just say it was too high?
And what did they use to test it, strips or liquid reagents and test tubes?


More questions, I'm afraid -
What is the expiry date on the pack of strips?
Have they been kept nice and dry or is there any chance they could have become damp?
This may sound like an odd question, but who is your water company (I do have a reason for asking....)



(I asked about plant fertiliser as another member couldn't work out how he had high nitrate - it turned out he was adding a fertiliser which had nitrate in it)

The first photo I posted, the carpet and the strips was earlier today and from the fish tank.
The second one I just send now (from the kitchen) is from the tap as requested.

The shop had test tubes of coloured water, the pH was fine, and then he said the nitrates were supposed to be clear but it was really pink. He said to simply wait a week and bring another test pot of water.

The test strips have a date of 08/2022 and no I've kept them safe and dry.

The water company is ses. And I have added in the copy of the water report in my other original thread when I was worried about the water colour (which is now clearer)

 

[Essjay]

Ah yes, I remember now

You found your harness table - if you go back to that page on SES's website and go further down you'll find the heading 'nitrate'. That will tell you what their lab tests your tap nitrate as. Compare their number to your tap water test strip.

 

[Paige2906]

Ah yes, I remember now

You found your harness table - if you go back to that page on SES's website and go further down you'll find the heading 'nitrate'. That will tell you what their lab tests your tap nitrate as. Compare their number to your tap water test strip.

Here it is (attached)

 

[kwi]

Lots of chalk and agriculture in tha area IIRC.
Average Nitrate 26ppm, minimum 8.1 max. 35.8

 

[Essjay]

The average of 26 ppm is lower than your test strip.

It would be interesting to find out what the fish shop reading was.
Hmmm..... I wonder what they'd say if you took some tap water in to test and pretend it was tank water? If you do, ask them for the number.

 

[ITViking]

For practical purposes ('where do we go from here?') I think it would be important to focus on getting your tank cycled by introducing some ammonia as suggested by others, and plan your eventual fish load based on the water conditions you are able to maintain.

 

[Paige2906]

The average of 26 ppm is lower than your test strip.

It would be interesting to find out what the fish shop reading was.
Hmmm..... I wonder what they'd say if you took some tap water in to test and pretend it was tank water? If you do, ask them for the number.

So if the average of 26ppm is lower than the test strip, are we saying there is more nitrate in the tank that in the water in the tank? If so is this good or bad?

I'd love to know what he was reading? He had made me extremely nervous but also I'm struggling to see what he was reading because he said the nitrates were very high and to simply wait a week.

Im completely baffled, very lost and a little bit disheartened as this is not my first tank and I feel like this all alot more complicated than I ever had it last time.