Shimmying Guppy :(

[Serka]

Hello! I've been seeing some shimmying + clamped fins in one of my female guppies (I have 3 total, 2f, 1m in the tank.) It is a 10 gal planted tank (filled to about 8.) Relatively new tank (about 3-4 months old) and fully cycled. The symptoms started about a week ago and in only one fish, so I did some quick research and read low water hardness could result in shimmying, so I tested my water and the water was indeed very very soft (about 35ppm). I have since raised it to 135ish ppm with seachem equilibrium, and been monitoring the fish to see if it would help. There seemed to be some improvements so I thought she just needed some time to bounce back. A couple days ago she even seemed to be back to normal (no more clamped fins, actively swimming, she returned to shimmying in her 'favourite shimmying' spot only a couple of times that day.) However, the next day she seemed to go back to frequent shimmying and clamped fins, and has been the same for the past 2 days. So thats when I decided to post on this forum to get some advice/see if im missing something.

To summarize the sick behaviour: She frequently shimmies near the top of the tank, usually in a preferred spot. It is not constant, she will usually shimmy for 30 seconds to a few minutes then return to swimming around a little. Only to return to shimmying or otherwise sticking to the surface. The entire time she also has clamped fins, and I have seen her gulp/gasp at the surface as she shimmies, she's also quite skinny. None of the other 2 guppies exhibit this behaviour. I have considered that this may be an oxygen problem, however no other fish seem to be gasping, and I have a rather long air stone in the tank already.

Other notes: Her poop is not transparent. Maybe the stress of the male chasing them around might be the issue, but he has left her alone in favor of the other female ever since shes been acting this way. The male guppy was purchased from a store a few weeks back, and the females I took in from my fathers tank a couple weeks ago(the tank is quite old, has been running for many years). I've considered adding salt into the tank, but have yet to, I was worried about plant damage and wasn't sure about the recommended salt dosage for a planted tank vs unplanted. Any help/advice on this issue would be greatly appreciated, I worry about my poor fishy quite a bit.

Water Parameters: Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: ~5ppm (has gone up to as high as 40ppm in the past, 5ppm was the most recent measurement.), PH: ~7.5, Hardness: ~135ppm, Temp: 24C
Water changes: Once a week
Chemicals: Root tabs for the plants, water column fertilizer (about 0.5ml every other day,) seachem equilibrium, and water conditioner.

 

[BettaFishGirl]

If you could raise the temp a little (maybe to 78 degrees fahrenheit) it could help as its only 75F right now. Has she been eating? She looks a little skinny. I can't help you a lot, but I hope she gets better!!

 

[Serka]

If you could raise the temp a little (maybe to 78 degrees fahrenheit) it could help as its only 75F right now. Has she been eating? She looks a little skinny. I can't help you a lot, but I hope she gets better!!

In a twist of fate, my water heater broke a while back. Will look into getting a new one! She seems to participate in feeding time, I haven't payed extra attention to see if she actually eats the food she bites at though. Thank you none the less, I appreciate any feedback!

 

[Colin_T]

Shimmying is caused by poor water quality and or low general hardness (GH). Your water appears fine and the GH has been increased so should help.

The fish has a microsporidian infection, which is causing the muscle tissue to change colour. Add salt.

--------------------

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[Serka]

Shimmying is caused by poor water quality and or low general hardness (GH). Your water appears fine and the GH has been increased so should help.

The fish has a microsporidian infection, which is causing the muscle tissue to change colour. Add salt.

--------------------

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

Will add the salt right now, thank you for your insight! I really appreciate it.
Just to clarify, is the shimmying also a part of the infection or purely from the previously low GH? Just wondering so I know what symptoms to keep an eye on to know if the infection is getting better.

 

[Colin_T]

Shimmying is from the low GH

 

[Serka]

Hello! Wanted to post a quick update with a follow up question.
Its been almost 3 days since adding 2tbsp of salt per 20L, with not much improvement to show for it. She has become more active, however still clamped up, skinny, etc.
Im afraid to add more salt because I want to avoid damaging the plants. However, another tank in my home has opened up with the unfortunate passing of it's fish from some fungal infection we didn't manage to beat with salt. I was wondering if it would be possible to use the now vacant tank as a hospital tank for my sick guppy where I could safely increase salt parameters. However I am concerned about the proper way to manage this given the newly available tank had a fungus outbreak. (do you sterilize the tank? or would a water change be sufficient?) Also wondering about the proper way to acclimate a stressed sick fish to the other tank if I decide to go down that road. Is it even worth the stress to the fish for the potential of a higher salt dosage, or would it be more productive to keep it in its current 2tbsp environment?

Given all that's happened I've definitely been enlightened to the value of a readily available hospital tank. So I will look into purchasing one in the future.

 

[Serka]

To add: I notice she keeps her mouth open today, her bottom lip seems to almost jut out. Don't think this was there before, what does it mean?

 

[BettaFishGirl]

When my guppy was sick he had his mouth open a lot, then passed a couple days later. I hope this doesn't happen. How long have you had her? Check the water parameters again. Maybe it's old age?

 

[Colin_T]

The fish is dying, euthanise it.

re: the other tank with fungus. Are you sure the fish had fungus?
You can drain the tank and gravel clean the substrate, then refill it with dechlorinated water. That should dilute / remove most of the disease organisms. Cleaning the filter would help too.

If you want to do a full clean, you take everything outside and hose it out. Then fill the tank with chlorinated water. The chlorine in the tap water will kill most of the remaining pathogens in the tank. This will probably wipe out the beneficial filter bacteria too and you will have to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels when you add fish to the tank.

 

[Serka]

When my guppy was sick he had his mouth open a lot, then passed a couple days later. I hope this doesn't happen. How long have you had her? Check the water parameters again. Maybe it's old age?

Sorry to hear Unfortunately my female guppies are on the much older side, how old though I am not sure. I have chalked up the recent problems to old age though as well.

 

[Serka]

The fish is dying, euthanise it.

re: the other tank with fungus. Are you sure the fish had fungus?
You can drain the tank and gravel clean the substrate, then refill it with dechlorinated water. That should dilute / remove most of the disease organisms. Cleaning the filter would help too.

If you want to do a full clean, you take everything outside and hose it out. Then fill the tank with chlorinated water. The chlorine in the tap water will kill most of the remaining pathogens in the tank. This will probably wipe out the beneficial filter bacteria too and you will have to monitor the ammonia and nitrite levels when you add fish to the tank.

I was starting to suspect + accept that. Thank you for your response. I was wondering what it is about the open mouth thing that is such a death sign. Is it an onset of another infection or just their dying process?

As for the other tank, I dont have pictures, but the fish were covered in a white fluff on their heads/eyes, some on their upper back. They didnt look like Ich spots, at least to me.
Thanks for the cleaning advice as well

 

[Colin_T]

When fish are gasping/ breathing heavily, they are in pain or trying to get oxygen. In this case, when fish stop eating and have another illness, and then start breathing heavily, it's them trying to get oxygen and to relieve pain.

If fish get white slimy stuff all over their body, fins, eyes and head, it's normally excess mucous that is caused by something in the water irritating the fish, usually ammonia, nitrite, nitrate or incorrect pH. It can also be caused by chemicals or poisons in the water. The best thing to do if you see this, is test the water and then do a big water change and gravel clean the substrate. If it's a problem with the water, then the big water change will usually make a difference and the fish will lose the creamy white stuff within a few hours.

 

[Serka]

When fish are gasping/ breathing heavily, they are in pain or trying to get oxygen. In this case, when fish stop eating and have another illness, and then start breathing heavily, it's them trying to get oxygen and to relieve pain.

If fish get white slimy stuff all over their body, fins, eyes and head, it's normally excess mucous that is caused by something in the water irritating the fish, usually ammonia, nitrite, nitrate or incorrect pH. It can also be caused by chemicals or poisons in the water. The best thing to do if you see this, is test the water and then do a big water change and gravel clean the substrate. If it's a problem with the water, then the big water change will usually make a difference and the fish will lose the creamy white stuff within a few hours.

Interesting, I didn't know that, thank you!
I'll follow your advice for cleaning the other tank, thank you again.