Shed fish room?

[Coop23]

Hey everyone,
I am thinking about transforming a small garden shed (around 3x2 metres) into a fish room for breeding and growing out tropical fish( I dont have a shed just yet but will get one in the coming weeks). My plan is to insulate the walls and ceiling with earthwork batts and get rubber mats for the floor (the shed will sit on concrete slabs). As for heating and cooling I am based in western Australia so cooling is going to be much more of a issue for me. I think for cooling having a shade sail over the top and a large portable air con around 2.6kw should be enough?, And for heating just a small 500w space heater will be adequate? What I am asking is if there is anyone that has done this and has any experience, or just anything to add. Thanks for any input/ tips you can give me with this, anything will be amazing!!

 

[Archerfish]

I have not set up a fish room in a shed. Only used basements, garages and throughout the house. Here is an interesting article that might help. Based on my pond experience, make sure you have easy access to water, a good drain system and professionally installed electrical service. I have many questions, (shed seems small, are you doing this for profit or hobby etc.) but my curiosity does not help you at this time. Good luck! http://selectaquatics.com/article_Setting Up a Fishroom.htm

 

[GaryE]

I have done something similar, but in Canada. I have a 6mx4m room in what was an uninsulated, rickety old garage. I shored up the walls, insulated and am very happy with it.

I deal with a heat range from -47 last week, to +30 in July. I thought cold would be the biggest issue, but heat is trouble. If it's above ground, the sun does a lot to the temps inside, and a small AC unit is needed. It can be 22 outside, but 28 inside the room in summer. Since the room is so insulated, has tanks and lights etc, it holds the heat.

i thought wide open windows with a fan and bear/raccoon protected screens would suffice last summer, but the room sat at 25 and I wanted 22 max for the fish I breed.

I ran water (2 M underground with our temps) and electricity to the room as we built it. It's 10 months old, so early days. But I am buying an AC unit this week (this is the off season here for some odd reason and they're cheaper), and I'll be ready for this coming summer.

A very non Australian thing is that my heat retention issue connects to a metre of ceiling insulation and very thick wall insulation. The room also has 3 windows, facing south and southwest.

 

[Coop23]

I have not set up a fish room in a shed. Only used basements, garages and throughout the house. Here is an interesting article that might help. Based on my pond experience, make sure you have easy access to water, a good drain system and professionally installed electrical service. I have many questions, (shed seems small, are you doing this for profit or hobby etc.) but my curiosity does not help you at this time. Good luck! http/selectaquatics.com/article_Setting Up a Fishroom.htm

Yeah, the shed is definitely on the smaller side, I will be doing this as more of a hobby than for profit. I have a easy water access and will definitely have to have a sparkly in. Thanks for the ideas!

 

[Coop23]

Wow that sounds great! Yep 100 percent I'm going to have to have a constant fight with the heat. I am going to try to keep the room at 26c, with what I am planning to keep. What size air con are you looking at? I wonder if a 2.6kw will be enough?

 

[GaryE]

Wow that sounds great! Yep 100 percent I'm going to have to have a constant fight with the heat. I am going to try to keep the room at 26c, with what I am planning to keep. What size air con are you looking at? I wonder if a 2.6kw will be enough?

I am trying to overbuild with 12,000 BTU. But I could get by on 10, and have a way larger room than your shed. I learned in a previous house that overdoing it was cheaper than having an AC beat itself to death covering too large a square footage..

A hot day here would be 23-24, with rare spikes to 30+. I can see the Atlantic from the fishroom windows, so that moderates the summer heat. I can drive 15 km inland and be in 35c, then come home and be at 24. That said, the sun heats that room far beyond outdoors. I think I made it too tight and too well insulated for summer.

I actually have to factor in black bears and raccoons, because when they smell fish, screen doors are not enough. Otherwise, a screen door and a good fan would have done the job. You'll need a good roof for the drop bears....

 

[JenniferWarms]

I have done something similar, but in Canada. I have a 6mx4m room in what was an uninsulated, rickety old garage. I shored up the walls, insulated and am very happy with it.

I deal with a heat range from -47 last week, to +30 in July. I thought cold would be the biggest issue, but heat is trouble. If it's above ground, the sun does a lot to the temps inside, and a small AC unit is needed. It can be 22 outside, but 28 inside the room in summer. Since the room is so insulated, has tanks and lights etc, it holds the heat.

i thought wide open windows with a fan and bear/raccoon protected screens would suffice last summer, but the room sat at 25 and I wanted 22 max for the fish I breed.

I ran water (2 M underground with our temps) and electricity to the room as we built it. It's 10 months old, so early days. But I am buying an AC unit this week (this is the off season here for some odd reason and they're cheaper), and I'll be ready for this coming summer.

A very non Australian thing is that my heat retention issue connects to a metre of ceiling insulation and very thick wall insulation. The room also has 3 windows, facing south and southwest.

So my addiction to across has been spreading like a disease and my wife said no more tanks in the house. Not even the possibility of upgrading to a bigger set up either!
We then agreed upon that I can set up anything I want outside of our living space. I originally wanted to put up sheet rocks and divide our garage in to half. Half reserves for her car. The other half is all for myself since I don't have a nice ride to park in it anyway. Having putting some seriously thoughts into the fishroom build out. Given the humidity and heats problem in Houston, I concluded that I won't be feasible having in done in the garage. Besides, my wife already planning of purchasing another house within the next few years. Don't wanna add more mess to the garage just to end up fixing it later on.

So one last resort, Im contemplating of doing in the Shed we have in our back yard instead. Space will be limited since the dimensions are roughly 12'x8'. The good thing is that it already equipped with AC and dedicated breaker box.

I do have alot of questions regarding the build out. Mainly foundation structure related. Pics of the Shed will be posted soon with tons of questions follow.

 

[Colin_T]

Most fish rooms in Perth don't have air conditioners. Some people might but most don't bother. The biggest issue is cold in winter. Insulating the walls, roof and floor (and inside of the door/s) will make a huge difference.

I had aquarium heaters in my bottom tanks and they warmed the room enough so the water was around 18C (that's what the heaters were set on). That kept the tanks warm enough during most of winter. Occasionally if we have a 0C night, I would put an electric heater on to boost the temperature a bit but most of the time I didn't bother. Electric heaters are expensive to run.

Some people have reverse cycle air conditioning units on their fish rooms and use them to heat in winter and cool in summer if they like. But most fish are fine at 30C for a few months over summer and a shade sail would help keep things cooler. You can open the door up at night and let the room cool down, then close the door during the day to keep the heat out.

---------------------

INSULATION
Most people use 4 inch thick sheets of polystyrene foam on the roof and walls. Cool rooms and shipping containers can make good fish rooms because they are insulated.

You can buy rubber matts made from recycled car tyres from hardware stores or places like Clark Rubber. Get the matts that are one inch thick and lay them out on the ground for 24 hours before cutting them. When the matts are stacked in a pile at the shop, they squish outwards. If you lay them and cut them on the same day, they will shrink overnight and you will have gaps. So lay them out and wait 24 hours so they can shrink back to the correct size, then cut them.

The floor should be a solid concrete slab and not pavers. The slab should be 4-6 inches thick and preferably reinforced with some steel mesh. However, it depends on how many tiers the stands will be and how big the tanks are. If you have small tank (3 foot or less) and only have double tier stands, then you will probably be fine with a 4 inch slab and no reinforcing steel mesh.

If you are pouring a concrete slab, do it when the weather is cool and water the slab for 12-24 hours after pouring it. If the concrete dries too fast, it becomes brittle and cracks within a few months. Ideally you want to avoid pouring concrete when the temperature is above 25C and cooler is better.

If you have to pour concrete during hot weather, water the sand first or put a sheet of plastic down for the concrete to go into. After it has been poured, put a sprinkler on it so the concrete stays wet for at least 12 hours. This gives it time to cure and it will be stronger and less brittle.

You can always tell when concrete has been poured and brick houses have been built in Perth. If it was a cheapo rush it through in summer, the concrete slabs generally break up within 6-12 months, and the brick walls start to crack within that time frame too. If you ever want to build a brick house in Perth (Western Australia), build it in winter.

---------------------

WATER HOLDING/ STORAGE WATER
Triple tier stands give you more water holding and the more water you have in the room, the more stable the temperature. This is more important during winter because water loses heat much slower than air does. So having lots of tanks filled with water, means a more stable temperature.

If you have triple tier stands, you can use the top row of tanks for water holding and or plants. This gives you a supply of water that is the same temperature as the rest of the tanks and it can sit there for a week or two before it's used for water changes. You can aerate and dechlorinate it while it's sitting there.

Some people put a 200 litre plastic water tank in the corner of the room for water storage but they take up a bit of room so I prefer triple tier stands.

Stands should be made so there is an 8-12 inch gap above each tank. If you don't have enough space above each tank, they are horrible to work in and you will lose interest. You want a minimum of 8 inches of space above each tank and up to a maximum of 12 inches. More than 12 inches of space above a tank sin't really necessary.

The bottom row of tanks should be at least 6 inches off the ground so water can drain out of them easily. The gap under them also allows you to clean under them and to see any rodents or reptiles that might be living under them.

---------------------

SKYLIGHTS
A lot of fish rooms have skylights or Laserlite (Polycarbonate) sheeting alternating with tin sheets (tin, clear, tin, clear, tin). You can double glaze the Laserlite sheets so they don't need insulating and get free lighting to grow plants. Then have a few LED lights in the room that come on in the afternoon for a few hours to give you the ability to see the fish in the afternoon/ evening. You can have the LED lights on timers.

---------------------

AIR & FILTRATION
Get yourself a blower (like a big air pump) and run some 1 inch diameter black poly pipe around the ceiling of the fish room. The poly pipe is connected to the outlet on the blower. You buy plastic or metal taps that go into the black poly pipe and you hang airline off the taps. You use 1 big pump to run air into each tank and use sponge filters in the tank. One big pump normally uses less power than a dozen small pumps and produces a lot more air and won't pop diaphragms anywhere near as often.

 

[Coop23]

Most fish rooms in Perth don't have air conditioners. Some people might but most don't bother. The biggest issue is cold in winter. Insulating the walls, roof and floor (and inside of the door/s) will make a huge difference.

I had aquarium heaters in my bottom tanks and they warmed the room enough so the water was around 18C (that's what the heaters were set on). That kept the tanks warm enough during most of winter. Occasionally if we have a 0C night, I would put an electric heater on to boost the temperature a bit but most of the time I didn't bother. Electric heaters are expensive to run.

Some people have reverse cycle air conditioning units on their fish rooms and use them to heat in winter and cool in summer if they like. But most fish are fine at 30C for a few months over summer and a shade sail would help keep things cooler. You can open the door up at night and let the room cool down, then close the door during the day to keep the heat out.

---------------------

INSULATION
Most people use 4 inch thick sheets of polystyrene foam on the roof and walls. Cool rooms and shipping containers can make good fish rooms because they are insulated.

You can buy rubber matts made from recycled car tyres from hardware stores or places like Clark Rubber. Get the matts that are one inch thick and lay them out on the ground for 24 hours before cutting them. When the matts are stacked in a pile at the shop, they squish outwards. If you lay them and cut them on the same day, they will shrink overnight and you will have gaps. So lay them out and wait 24 hours so they can shrink back to the correct size, then cut them.

The floor should be a solid concrete slab and not pavers. The slab should be 4-6 inches thick and preferably reinforced with some steel mesh. However, it depends on how many tiers the stands will be and how big the tanks are. If you have small tank (3 foot or less) and only have double tier stands, then you will probably be fine with a 4 inch slab and no reinforcing steel mesh.

If you are pouring a concrete slab, do it when the weather is cool and water the slab for 12-24 hours after pouring it. If the concrete dries too fast, it becomes brittle and cracks within a few months. Ideally you want to avoid pouring concrete when the temperature is above 25C and cooler is better.

If you have to pour concrete during hot weather, water the sand first or put a sheet of plastic down for the concrete to go into. After it has been poured, put a sprinkler on it so the concrete stays wet for at least 12 hours. This gives it time to cure and it will be stronger and less brittle.

You can always tell when concrete has been poured and brick houses have been built in Perth. If it was a cheapo rush it through in summer, the concrete slabs generally break up within 6-12 months, and the brick walls start to crack within that time frame too. If you ever want to build a brick house in Perth (Western Australia), build it in winter.

---------------------

WATER HOLDING/ STORAGE WATER
Triple tier stands give you more water holding and the more water you have in the room, the more stable the temperature. This is more important during winter because water loses heat much slower than air does. So having lots of tanks filled with water, means a more stable temperature.

If you have triple tier stands, you can use the top row of tanks for water holding and or plants. This gives you a supply of water that is the same temperature as the rest of the tanks and it can sit there for a week or two before it's used for water changes. You can aerate and dechlorinate it while it's sitting there.

Some people put a 200 litre plastic water tank in the corner of the room for water storage but they take up a bit of room so I prefer triple tier stands.

Stands should be made so there is an 8-12 inch gap above each tank. If you don't have enough space above each tank, they are horrible to work in and you will lose interest. You want a minimum of 8 inches of space above each tank and up to a maximum of 12 inches. More than 12 inches of space above a tank sin't really necessary.

The bottom row of tanks should be at least 6 inches off the ground so water can drain out of them easily. The gap under them also allows you to clean under them and to see any rodents or reptiles that might be living under them.

---------------------

SKYLIGHTS
A lot of fish rooms have skylights or Laserlite (Polycarbonate) sheeting alternating with tin sheets (tin, clear, tin, clear, tin). You can double glaze the Laserlite sheets so they don't need insulating and get free lighting to grow plants. Then have a few LED lights in the room that come on in the afternoon for a few hours to give you the ability to see the fish in the afternoon/ evening. You can have the LED lights on timers.

---------------------

AIR & FILTRATION
Get yourself a blower (like a big air pump) and run some 1 inch diameter black poly pipe around the ceiling of the fish room. The poly pipe is connected to the outlet on the blower. You buy plastic or metal taps that go into the black poly pipe and you hang airline off the taps. You use 1 big pump to run air into each tank and use sponge filters in the tank. One big pump normally uses less power than a dozen small pumps and produces a lot more air and won't pop diaphragms anywhere near as often.

Hey, thanks for the information. Where I am you can basically take perths temps and add 2-5 degrees onto it and that would be my temps. So I think I will run a air con only on those 40+ days, also the fish I will be breeding will be some cichlids (Angel's possibly discus, and some other dwarfs), livebearers and plecos. For insulation would cool room panels work instead of foam, there are heaps selling cheap on marketplace and gumtree. Will concrete slabs would I do it myself or have to get a professional? I think I will do triple tier stands in most places as this would maximize my space. I definitely think I will do skylights as this would also get fish spawning more. For the air pump I see lots of people saying a blower style but some people say linear pistons are better?? I will definitely be running a central air system though, would I have to get two pumps, one for backup? Thanks!!

 

[kiko]

I think the most important thing in any fish room would have to be a drain/water source...
for insulation home depot actually has a video on this and insulation R types
you can watch it at: https://www.homedepot.com/c/ab/insulation-r-values/9ba683603be9fa5395fab9091a9131f
to me personally best type of insulation would be
plastic with a metal/aluminized sheet/blanket attached to it for the outside wall...
do the same for the inside wall..then fill it with spray foam and if you're going to use a piston pump..better add a sheet of accoustic insulation to the wall facing outside if you have neighbors nearby...
when it comes to filtration you have 2 options..going with air..which would require a piston pump/blower...when researching for one look at the specs and the actual piston size or L/min
the bigger and longer the cylinder = less rpm's and less noise required for the same airflow when it comes to pistons..for blowers it has more L/min but lower pressure so a little nick in the piping can cut flow quite a bit without you even knowing
when it comes to piston/blowers... there's only one brand pretty much ---> http://nittokohki.com/pumps/
the rest are cheap knock offs...even co-op's blowers are from nitto which can be seen right on the blowers as they don't allow rebranding of their products
2nd option is to connect the tanks in each rack together so one tank would overflow to the next and next and next and when it reaches the last..back to the first...it's the most quiet
the cheapest way I've seen to run multiple racks was a filipino guy on youtube that had this diy system
it basically was a bunch of pipes like 4-5" wide connected in a square with a single water pump...the pump would push the water up and when it fell on the other side it's weight would turn an impeller for each rack level which made it work like an individual pump for each rack level...pretty neat stuff
but anyhow...piston's are better at same face value so a piston pump at 90L/min will force it through with higher pressure
a blower will have less pressure so it'll require corner fittings when making your system or lose pressure...
now some of these can work with light switch dimmers dimmers to lower voltage and some have a knob on it..and some are pure scams diaphragm pumps being sold as blowers/piston pumps
a blower is pretty much an impeller pulling air from one side and pushing it down a pipe if there's resistance down the line it'll just turn and push less and less air through it
a piston pump depending on how tight the cylinder is will have more pressure and if there's resistance down the line, something will pop...tubing from sponge filter...seals in the pvc...something xD
that's why people with piston pumps also install pressure release valves in their system..to try and prevent a 'pop' somewhere
so both have their pro's and cons...
in my honest opinion I myself would probably go with a water pump for each rack level just for scalability as it makes it easier down the road for more and more and more tanks
assuming 5 tanks at 20g per rack with 3 levels and a 3x turnover that's 3 pumps of 60gph which runs at about 4watts/each
total of 3 racks, 45 tanks with 9 levels total becomes 9 pumps with a grand total of 36w for the entire room as filtration goes...
water changes would be a lot simpler too as all you'd have to do is to put an overflow on the last tank of each level and just fill the 1st tank with water...
the water level would rise and overflow into the drain..no buckets or anything of the like...
an automatic water "changer" would be as simple as buying a garden-timer attaching a solenoid water valve to it and run it once a day for 30mins and just adjust the flow on the water for each tank...this is where the holding tank comes into play and how much water you actually need...
at 15tanks per rack..5% daily (1g) which is roughly 35%/week on 20g tanks you'd need 15gallons of water per rack or 45gal for the whole room for daily water changes
at the end of the day I myself want to enjoy life and just have minimal work...so if you want things to work for you you're going to have to put in some work for it
otherwise you can just go the old-school way of "bucketeering" your way around the room...and yeah it's a word...I'm the copyright holder xDDD
anyways...whichever way you choose to do this I wish you the best of luck and patience for when things don't go your way
"work smart, not hard"

 

[Colin_T]

Cool room panels are usually 4-6 inch polystyrene sheets sealed in plastic or metal. They make ideal fish rooms and if you can find a complete cool room for a cheap price, you can cut a hole in the top for a skylight and change the cooling unit to something that doesn't freeze, and your good to go.

-------------------

You can either pour the concrete slab yourself or get in a professional. If you prepare the area first, you could call a concrete truck to come and pour the stuff and you poke it all in then smooth it off with a trowel or length of wood. Then keep it wet for at least 12 hours after it has been poured and it should set nicely. Try to do it when it's cool though, if you can wait a few months until the temperature drops to the low 20s or less, that is when you want to do concrete.

If you do it yourself, hire a cement mixer for the day and get a few friends to help pour it. If you don't want to get a cement mixer, then use a shovel and wheelbarrow and get a couple of friends to mix and mix and mix. You will have to buy them a few drinks afterwards and probably have a BBQ to pay them off.

-------------------

Get whatever pump you can. I prefer blower type air pumps. If you live in a remote area, buy 2 pumps at the same time. Have one for a back up and get a few spare parts just in case. With a blower air pump you only need a spare diaphragm and a couple of flapper/ flutter valves. In an emergency you can use a piece of plastic cut to fit for a flapper valve.

 

[Coop23]

Cool room panels are usually 4-6 inch polystyrene sheets sealed in plastic or metal. They make ideal fish rooms and if you can find a complete cool room for a cheap price, you can cut a hole in the top for a skylight and change the cooling unit to something that doesn't freeze, and your good to go.

-------------------

You can either pour the concrete slab yourself or get in a professional. If you prepare the area first, you could call a concrete truck to come and pour the stuff and you poke it all in then smooth it off with a trowel or length of wood. Then keep it wet for at least 12 hours after it has been poured and it should set nicely. Try to do it when it's cool though, if you can wait a few months until the temperature drops to the low 20s or less, that is when you want to do concrete.

If you do it yourself, hire a cement mixer for the day and get a few friends to help pour it. If you don't want to get a cement mixer, then use a shovel and wheelbarrow and get a couple of friends to mix and mix and mix. You will have to buy them a few drinks afterwards and probably have a BBQ to pay them off.

-------------------

Get whatever pump you can. I prefer blower type air pumps. If you live in a remote area, buy 2 pumps at the same time. Have one for a back up and get a few spare parts just in case. With a blower air pump you only need a spare diaphragm and a couple of flapper/ flutter valves. In an emergency you can use a piece of plastic cut to fit for a flapper valve.

Yeah I think I will go with cool room panels or a full cool room then. I know family that have poured concrete themselves and even have one of those little mixers, so I think I will do it myself. How thick do I want to go, 4 inches? I think I will go with a blower, seems the best and yea I will be buying two. With the central air system where do I get those little valves from that go to the sponge filters from the pvc, and what are they called? Thanks so much for the help with everything!

 

[GaryE]

I use linear pistons, as quality ones are effective, quiet, energy efficient and long lasting. My 2006 model is still running. Cheap linear pistons sound like WW 2 aircraft though.

If you go three tiers and are tall, you may need to invest in new knees. Avoid all set ups that involve becoming a contortionist. Trust me.

Here, I can get metal air valves on Amazon, ones that screw into pvc easily.

 

[Colin_T]

Yeah I think I will go with cool room panels or a full cool room then. I know family that have poured concrete themselves and even have one of those little mixers, so I think I will do it myself. How thick do I want to go, 4 inches? I think I will go with a blower, seems the best and yea I will be buying two. With the central air system where do I get those little valves from that go to the sponge filters from the pvc, and what are they called? Thanks so much for the help with everything!

4 inches with steel reinforcing mesh
6 inches without steel reinforcing mesh.

You can get airline taps from any pet shop. If they don't have metal ones in stock, see if they can order them in. If they can't, look on eBay or online and see if you can find them. The plastic taps work but the brass/ metal ones are better.

 

[GaryE]

You can get airline taps from any pet shop. If they don't have metal ones in stock, see if they can order them in. If they can't, look on eBay or online and see if you can find them. The plastic taps work but the brass/ metal ones are better.

@Colin_T Australia is a civilized place. I had a devil of a time finding taps in Canada.