Setting Up To Do An Automatic Water Change.

[dredgy]

Hi all, I'm about to embark on this rather ambitious project for a few reasons.
 
1. My tank will be very well stocked, requiring 50% or greater water changes weekly. This would disturb the fish a little bit.
2. I live in a highrise apartment, and water changes involve the floor getting wet (downstairs neigbours), sand everywhere and the sink is nowhere near the tank. So its a very laborious task.
3. I'm a wee bit lazy.
 
So my plan is to have the tank do its own water changes. I have the general idea in my head but need help with the specifics as well as some opinions.
 
The basic mechanics would be:
 
1. Have an overflow drilled into the side of the tank.
2. Drip water into the tank using a standard irrigation dripper hooked to a faucet. (slightly problematic since the only free faucet is in the kitchen and would usually power the dishwasher, which is currently broken).
 
Things I'm not quite sure how to do yet:
 
1. Hooking the actual hose to the faucet. The faucet is standard outdoor type for a garden hose, the hose would be whatever fits in with the irrigation drippers. I'm assuming they make a connector, but if I'm wrong that could be a problem.
2. Hooking the overflow hose to the tank. How do you connect it to the drilled whole and have it sealed watertight?
3. Can the overflow act as a filter? Just to get any excess gunk off the top layer of water? I'd be a bit worried about flushing shrimp, though an appropriately sized mesh should be alright for that, would also be slightly worried about surface fish who prefer slow moving water.
 
I'm also not sure what to do with the excess water, I have two choices really:
 
1.  I have a drain on my verandah. Running a hose through my loungeroom from the aquarium and outside without any visual impact would be expensive, time consuming and possible devalue the property if I have to drill holes in stuff. However it has the enormous advantage of me being able to drain as much water as I like without having to check on anything. Also along these lines I could drain the water into the garbage disposal, the kitchen plumbing or even the toilet.
 
2. Collect the water in a container under the tank. This has the advantage of being cheap, easy and still much less hassle free than manually draining the tank. The disadvantages would be that I still have to tip the water down the sink every second day, and the container would probably be far too heavy to lift.
 
I need to use either of these two approaches (unless someone has a better idea), but both have huge disadvantages, so opinions and ideas would be hugely appreciated.
 
3. My tank contains ~205L of water when filled - taking into account rocks and substrate. The drippers I am looking at have a flow rate of 2-4 Litres/Hour (48L-96L/Day). I'm assuming I can adjust the pressure to take it lower than that though. However, if a 25-50% water change a day will not be stressful to the fish, I would very much like to be able to do that. However, if I am catching the water in a container - 50L to 100L is a ****load of water to handle. Best ways to do this.
 
 
If anyone has any ideas, suggestions and/or past experience, please let me know. Thanks guys

 

[Chad]

Genesis Reef Systems makes an auto water change system. Of course parts of it are technical using a controller and all but perhaps their system might give you a few ideas. http/genesisreefsystems.com/products/automatic-water-change-systems/

 

[dredgy]

That is an interesting system, albeit overcomplex and visually intrusive if I have to mount reservoirs above the aquarium or install a sump as well.
 
I do have the huge advantage of my tap water being fine for my tank, so just pumping water into the tank direct would suffice - I don't really need a reservoir.
 
That said, I'll read the manuals of the RENEW and see if it has some ideas and if I can hook it straight into my plumbing. Thanks for that link.

 

[Chad]

You could also use a float like on a toilet etc. Keep us updated on what you come up with. For large tanks this is a useful tool.

 

[dredgy]

I will definitely keep you posted. I should start construction next week sometime once I work out a plan and consult with some experts.

 

[Zikofski]

haha yes i was thinking about this but then the idea of a float in the tank or electric's didn't seem a good idea, i know some people make alarms for like toilets, just need two contacts separated, a buzzer and a battery, as water rises it completes the circuit and buzzer sounds, you could do the same thing i guess, for getting water to stop, if you can get a controlled circuit when it sees voltage it electronically switches of, and for the water going out, my wall timer's can be set weekly so i guess you can hook up an electronic switch like a solenoid for co2 to an external filter, then count how many mins it takes to do xx% water change, and you can do the same for water going in. some ways you could do it. i guess the first idea with the contacts, could be used more as a top up, as water drops below the contacts and they dry, breaking circuit which starts the tap, as water rises makes contact and water flow stops , so many options haha just finding the parts, depends on how in depth you want to go and how little you want in the tank
 
either way il be following this closely sounds interesting

 

[Zikofski]

i would recommend going for the drain option rather than a container as daily water change wont stress the fish out at all.
 
but i use one of these to help me hook up to a hose pipe, i use one of these 
 
http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/eheim-reducing-tjunction-1612mm-p-1001.html
 
along with some normal 12-16mm tank pipe, that goes into a standard hose pipe adapter, then i use that connected to actual garden hose to drain my water every week, i run the garden hose around 25m to the end of garden out a door flow is slow, but means my filters stay active and running.
 
i also have the same thing for the input, but with 3 switches to stop flow being drawn from my tank without loosing the siphon, i also use a wheele bin that i fill up the night before and pre heat roughly add declor then as well thats how i do my water changes, but if you can get like an adapter for your hole, just use standard silicon glue to seal it and make it water tight, anything that roughly fits will do
 
if you make the hole just big enough for this http/www.aquadiskont.com/shop/eheim-absperrhahn-1622-p-506.html you can the glue it to the side and gives you a switch, if you ever need to turn it off to
 

 

[Chad]

Probably the easiest way is to have a drain that you turn a valve then a spout you turn on to fill but that's not really automatic you still have to be there. Is that sufficient or does it have to be truly automatic?

 

[dredgy]

Probably the easiest way is to have a drain that you turn a valve then a spout you turn on to fill but that's not really automatic you still have to be there. Is that sufficient or does it have to be truly automatic?

 
Turning a switch off and on is fine, though at the system I'm going to run - once I figure out the intricacies of plumbing - will be running 24/7.
 

i would recommend going for the drain option rather than a container

as daily water change wont stress the fish out at all.
 
but i use one of these to help me hook up to a hose pipe, i use one of these 
 
http/www.charterhouse-aquatics.co.uk/eheim-reducing-tjunction-1612mm-p-1001.html
 
along with some normal 12-16mm tank pipe, that goes into a standard hose pipe adapter, then i use that connected to actual garden hose to drain my water every week, i run the garden hose around 25m to the end of garden out a door flow is slow, but means my filters stay active and running.
 
i also have the same thing for the input, but with 3 switches to stop flow being drawn from my tank without loosing the siphon, i also use a wheele bin that i fill up the night before and pre heat roughly add declor then as well

thats how i do my water changes, but if you can get like an adapter for your hole, just use standard silicon glue to seal it and make it water tight, anything that roughly fits will do
 
if you make the hole just big enough for this http/www.aquadiskont.com/shop/eheim-absperrhahn-1622-p-506.html you can the glue it to the side and gives you a switch, if you ever need to turn it off to

 

 
Thanks for the great insights there, though living in an apartment I can't really fill a wheelie bin. Key restraints here are that I have limited space, limited access to internal plumbing and I can't have a visual obstruction. All the fittings and bits and bobs you provided are incredibly helpful though.
 
I have worked out how I am going to do this. All I'll have to do is drill two holes in the side of a cupboard and the one into the tank for the overflow. This is how it will work.
 
1. One side of my tank faces my kitchen and has a convenient huge rock which obscures the entire back corner from view. Its in this back corner where I will drill the hole as high up as possible and connect the outflow. I will also run in the dripper and submerge it about halfway to avoid stirring the surface and allowing good water rotations. Judging from the example piece of hose I placed in tonight, the dripper will be invisible from the 2 sides of the tank visible to the casual observer.
 
2. The hoses will run a short distance along the wall behind the aquarium and behind the kitchen bench, to under the sink. I have a whisky cabinet next to the aquarium that will obscure nearly all of the hosing. The dripper will be connect directly to the faucet and operating 24/7. At a rate of 2-4L/h, this will enable a 25% to 50% water change extremely gradually every single day. I can simply turn off the water and stop filling the tank if I wish to discontinue water changes for any reason.
 
3. By some bizzare twist of luck, there is a fitting to connect a hose and dispose of water in the garbage disposal "reservoir" under the sink. So the overflow will connect directly to this. There are also a couple of spair air intakes in the PVC plumbing I could modify to fit a hose but I'd need to replace that if I ever move.
 
 
Cost/Advantages/Disadvantage
 
Cost is the main disadvantage, but so long as I can do all the labour myself, this should come out well under $100 in materials. Some slight inconvenience with running a hose under the kitchen sink but its all out of sight. If I have to get labour, that could add a few hundred.
 
Advantages are easy enough to understand, but I'll list them anyway.
 
1. Is not dependant on electricity. If the power drops out and takes the filter(s) with it, water changes will still occur so long as I have running water.
2. Easy to dissasemble, can be turned off just by twisting a tap.
3. Overflow will obviously take water from the surface, no particularly strong suction or anything which will make the fish completely oblivious to the water change.
4. The water being returned into mid-level of the tank will leave the surface water mostly still so I can keep butterflyfish. All of my current filtration outflows at the middle of the tank, still provide a high current for fish who enjoy that.
5. Slow, gradual 24 hour changes allow the water to heat and match tank conditions much quicker, again keeping the fish happy.
6. Also has the huge advantage of me being able to keep filtration costs and equipment down.
 
I hope it works.

 

[Chad]

I would just branch off the drain and put a ball-valve on that, run the pipe to a nearby drain then filling it is simply with another valve that allows water in for a simple version.
 
Has this link already been put up?
http/www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/diy-aquarium-projects/63801-easy-diy-automatic-water-change-system.html

 

[dredgy]

I don't know if its been posted in this thread, but I have seen it in research, and am adopting and refining some of its ideas, I'm just hoping to town it down visually.
 
The ball-valve is a great idea I didn't think of, I'm sure the hardware will have a whole bunch of awesome things I never knew existed. I'm also going to have to brush up on some physics, because the overflow is definitely the most difficult thing to be able to do unobtrusively. The way I'm thinking is that I wouldn't be siphoning, water would just drain downhill into the plumbing.
 
That link also points out another negative - that the new water might also be siphoned out alongside the old water and not change as much water as I hoped.  This is a reason I decided to submerge the inflow, though I of course can't be sure that it'll be effective.
 
I will consult some experts.

 

[Chad]

You could purchase a HOB overflow like the Esopps PF-300.

 

[Zikofski]

very interesting design, i cant w8 to see it complete make sure you put pics up haha

 

[dredgy]

Yea I certainly will, I have documented nearly every step of my tank so far and will publish it all once its done.
 
In the next week I'm gonna get my tank fully stocked and get the lighting sorted and then start on this. I'm consulting with some aquarium builders tomorrow to run over and hone this system. Look forward to getting it all running.
 
Problem is, now I have the whole tank syndrome thing - I originally wanted just this one ornament but I am already planning my next one

 

[ian_m]

Remember..
1. Dechlorinator is also needs to be added.
2. If a system fails (pump, valves etc) is must fail safely ie not fail and end up syphoning all tank water out onto the floor.

I have used a system, where I had a 750litre/hour submersible aquarium pump (outlet suitable for standard hose pipe 1/2"), dunked in tank, and pumped water out into sink. Turned pump off, connect hose pipe to mixer tap and sent water to the tank. Not exactly automatic but simple.

Gave up eventually, as got a water softener, rendering the hot water unusable for fish and also doesn't actually clean the tank. All the dirt and crud still collected at the bottom of the tank, requiring hovering up.