Setting Up A New Tank, Looking For Some Advice

[Dregain]

Hi There,

I am a bit of a noob with this, but however, I have spent some considerable time going though posts and what not to try and get me to where I want, and to be brutally honest, this forum seems to have the most wonderful and helpful people out there..

I have some technicial questions that would perhaps be better placed in this board than the new one (but please feel free to move it if you think it would be better in there) as it sorta relates to a DIY project

To give you some background, I am now the proud owner of a 440lt tank. After doing a bit of research, I have decided to go for a fresh water tropical setup. A Malaui(sp?) setup with a world of Chiclids.

Now I have the vision of how I want it to look in my minds eye, but the filter and pump that came with it (in the lid type filter and a pump with a big black tube protruding into the tank), does not fit into that picture.

I have decided to go for one of those 3D Backgrounds - The 'Oglas' to be exact, that will be cut to size.

This is what it looks like,

Details of it can be found here
<a href="http/www.universalhabitat.com/shop.php/b...rounds/c_3.html?page=1" target="_blank">http/www.universalhabitat.com/shop.php/b...c_3.html?page=1</a>

Now, I wanted to perhaps drill a hole in it (bottom right corner) DYI style and run a pipe up the back of the background to go into a canister pump under the tank, with the water return via a cpl of spray bars or an angeled return type valve cut into the backgound like the intake but in the top left.

To give you an idea, sorta like this pic (its from the BackToNature install guide)

Then that leads me to my pump/filter.

From, what I have read on this forum, there are really on 3 brands worth considering, however, after calling and browsing the web, only 2 brands seem to be available where I am. That is the Rena and Eheim, so considering the size of the tank and how I would like a Malaui setup (from what I understand, you can overpoputalte them to curb the aggression - which is what I would like -please correct me if I am wrong but) my choice of pumps would come down to;

Eheim 'Classic' 2217 - rated to do a 600lt tank @ $282
Eheim 'Pro' 2026 - rated to do a 350lt tank @ $380
Eheim 'Pro' 2028 - upto 600lt @ $530
Rena XP2 - rated to do 150-300lt @ $315
Rena XP3 - upto 600lt @375

These are in AUD - I am sure there may be cheaper online, but I would prefer to buy from a local shop (support local business and all) also in case of any problems for easy return and any warranty issues that may arise.

It will of course also need a heater

So my questions are;
A) anyone has ever had any experience with modifying one of those 3D Backgounds (as in cutting the size - if its even possible?) How hard was it? I have found a few ideas on the BackToNature site under installation.. But just looking for 'real world' experience. Is there any tips you could throw out? Pro's/Con's etc, you know, things like "if I did it again, I would do it this way" (also if you were able to run a pipe behind it and keep it water tight)

B) Which pump should I look at getting? it is looking between the Rena XP3 and the Eheim 'Classic' 2217. Is there much diffrence between the two? is being up to 600lt 'too much' for the tank? Also, going with an overpopulated tank..

C) Would anyone have any advice on a heater? I would like this to be as 'non-visable' or 'non-intrusive' as possible (if that makes sense)

Thanks for any advice you could throw my way, it is greatly appreciated!

edit:: Clarity and added pics

 

[Dregain]

Anyone have any advise? More so for the 2nd question;

B) Which pump should I look at getting? it is looking between the Rena XP3 and the Eheim 'Classic' 2217. Is there much diffrence between the two? is being up to 600lt 'too much' for the tank? Also, going with an overpopulated tank..

as I was really looking at purchasing the filter this weekend

cheers and thanks!!

 

[waterdrop]

OK, I'm not sure if I'm missing something but you may need to do some more homework before purchase time on question B. We're talking huge tank here right? 440L is 116 US gallon, right? You don't want to go by those "tank size" figures the manufacturers throw out there, you want to use the actual "flow rate" specs and use them skeptically. On eheim the handy listing is... I go to the US web site, click downloads on left, click "booklets", click "Eheim product range.pdf" or something like that and scroll to the bottom past all the colorful pictures. You're going to need to make a decision on turnover rate somewhere between 5x and perhaps 10x (thats 2200 liters/hour for you at 5x, right?)... so you're talking TWO very large filters, not one, to be doing things right. Perhaps 2 2028's would do it. Personally I really like the eheim Pro lines over the Classic but I just like the features. You should also be checking out the Hydor inline heaters to splice in to one of your return hoses from one of these filters. Two filters will have major benefits (if you make it past your wallet) in that they will backup each other for failures and you can clean them alternately. Hope this gets you started.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Dregain]

OK, I'm not sure if I'm missing something but you may need to do some more homework before purchase time on question B. We're talking huge tank here right? 440L is 116 US gallon, right? You don't want to go by those "tank size" figures the manufacturers throw out there, you want to use the actual "flow rate" specs and use them skeptically. On eheim the handy listing is... I go to the US web site, click downloads on left, click "booklets", click "Eheim product range.pdf" or something like that and scroll to the bottom past all the colorful pictures. You're going to need to make a decision on turnover rate somewhere between 5x and perhaps 10x (thats 2200 liters/hour for you at 5x, right?)... so you're talking TWO very large filters, not one, to be doing things right. Perhaps 2 2028's would do it. Personally I really like the eheim Pro lines over the Classic but I just like the features. You should also be checking out the Hydor inline heaters to splice in to one of your return hoses from one of these filters. Two filters will have major benefits (if you make it past your wallet) in that they will backup each other for failures and you can clean them alternately. Hope this gets you started.

~~waterdrop~~

Hi Waterdrop,

Thanks for the advise, but yes, at the time I wrote I must admit I was suffering from a bit of information overload, and was also using many sites for information. On one it was quoted to me to "get a filter that is rated for 20% more than your tank.." and I must have just got that aspect stuck in my head..

I also, had a look at the Hydor 'In-Line' externals. The biggest one that it looks like I can get would be the 300w one, and that seems like it's only good for 300lt. They are roughly about $100 each. Would it be worth getting 2 for a tank my size?

Anywho.. After considering the required flow requirement, would it be worth perhaps considering the Fluval FX5 (that's the only good external from Fluval as I understand it) and according to the specs, that can pump out up to 3500lt p/h and at only $500 seems like a reasonable price?

Whilst I understand the redundancy of the 2 filters and would perhaps prefer to have 2 independent systems running , like you said, my wallet just will slap me upside the head once I include the heaters, background, extra piping and all the other little bits for the DIY background (aqua silicon, fittings, hole saw.. etc) - I could perhaps do 2 x Eheim 'Classic' 2217. My budget at the moment is about $1000 give or take with anything above that requiring the missus seal of approval (and you don't want to know how much paper work I would have to fill out for that - would make getting a mortgage seem easy)

So, if you think the Fuval FX5 would be ok, would a setup like this work? (love me madz mspaint skills)

The red being the intake (hidden by the background), and the orange being the 2 heaters (if required?) with the output being either 2 spray bars on top or having some flow return type flanges also built into the background.. or even a combo of both?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Cheers and Thanks.