Set Up

[korky]

I joined this impressive forum today. Strictly speaking I am not new to the hobby, but it is many years since I used to breed them. The technolgy seems to have moved on a bit.

I set up a 60mm secondhand Elite aquarium 6 weeks ago. I am using a combined heater/thermostat and a small internal power filter. For lighting, I use a 15w FloraGrow tube for about 13 hours a day (timeswitch). There is some natural daylight, but no sun from a North facing window nearby. It is quite a 'dim' room really. Tank comtains gravel, some bogwood and various plants. No undergravel filteration. I added a 3 Platies, a few loaches and a Bronze Cat very recently. They are all healthy, fins up, etc., but a bit too active for me.

Most of the plants are doing fine, those are Amazon Swords, Mini-Sags, Bacopa and Cryptos. The twisted Vallis is not doing so good. I am leaving things like that for now and will let the 'happier' plants propagate over time. Years ago a breeder told me that Vallis and Sags never get on together - is this true?

The Elite hood has the flouresent unit built in, rated at 15w. The replacement tubes cost a bit and I cant see a way to fit a second tube in the hood. Problem is that the fish do not show up at their best under the FloraGrow. Please could anybody advise me as to whether I can swap this out for a tube that is better at showing the fish up without compromising the good plant growth so far?

Also, I was careful to check the thermostat calibration and it was out by 3c. At present the tank is running at 25-26c. Is this too warm for any of the fish? The catfish seems to be very active in there and past experience is making me think I should take it down to 23-24c. Am I being over-concerned here?

Thanks in advance for any advice on the above

 

[waterdrop]

Hi korky and welcome to TFF,

Setup sounds nice, glad you enjoy the hobby. How about giving us some more detail on the dimensions and volume of your tank, I can't quite make out what the 60mm means.

The different K-numbers and color blends of the various fluorescents usually don't matter nearly as much as the overall amount of light the plants get. You can experiment with different ones and go with one that shows up your fish to your liking. I'd take some time and keep discussing it here and you will no doubt come up with a good plan for your plants.

You don't mention cycling but perhaps you are already familiar with this and at 6 months, its probably not a critical topic for you but it would be interesting to hear your background in that area. I was a former hobbyist from years ago and was fascinated to see how much the ideas had changed and how effective the new techniqes are now.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Korky. I am guessing that your 60 mm tank is really a 60 cm tank. If so you are probably running a 70 to 80 litre tank. The 15W bulb is quite a low light output for a tank that size so your plant choices will be quite limited.
As WD said, the light level is much more important than the spectrum for the plants. It is one of the things that has proven true since we all used to get growlux and similar bulbs.
For fish viewing, many people prefer light in the 5500K to 10000K light spectrum regions. A so called daylight lamp will usually be about 6000K to 6500K and gives a whitish light. A lamp with a spectrum of about 5500K tends to look a bit yellow to people. A 10000K bulb gives a slightly bluish tint to things. A so called warm white bulb is about 2700K. It really comes down to what you like and your personal preference in light color.
Kits are made to upgrade lighting to much higher levels by putting a power compact fluorescent bulb into an existing hood. With such a kit you could get enough light jammed into a 2 ft hood to virtually blind your fish. They are made for saltwater reef people who must have very bright lights or for plant people who want no light limits on what they can have in their tanks.

 

[korky]

Hi korky and welcome to TFF,

Setup sounds nice, glad you enjoy the hobby. How about giving us some more detail on the dimensions and volume of your tank, I can't quite make out what the 60mm means.

The different K-numbers and color blends of the various fluorescents usually don't matter nearly as much as the overall amount of light the plants get. You can experiment with different ones and go with one that shows up your fish to your liking. I'd take some time and keep discussing it here and you will no doubt come up with a good plan for your plants.

You don't mention cycling but perhaps you are already familiar with this and at 6 months, its probably not a critical topic for you but it would be interesting to hear your background in that area. I was a former hobbyist from years ago and was fascinated to see how much the ideas had changed and how effective the new techniqes are now.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks very much for the reply. It is 60cm (not mm sorry), plus 30cm from front to back and 33cm water depth. There is no glass or clear plastic cover between the tube and the surface. It wasn't 6 months, but six weeks from set up to introducing the fish. (I was probably half asleep when I posted on the forum). I used filtered rainwater as I know the water here is very hard.

As for the plants, anything with a red underside or broad leaves is thriving. The Bacopa is racing away and the Amazon Swords have many new leaves. I will give up on the twisted Vallis if it dies away. I think I have enough growth to take cuttings and babies off the others. I will keep you all informed as to progress on this.

So, what has changed since 40 years ago. Well I used to use my dad's brick outhouse. About 40 tanks in there. I kept the building well insulated and heated the space rather than the tanks. I bred plenty of Gouramis (mainly thick lips), Tooth Carps too. The Danios used to breed themselves all the time. I sold the surplus to the local shop or other fishkeepers but never made quite enough to pay for the hobby.

Looking around retail shops now I am suprised at the amout of disease around. Plenty of what we used to call neon tetra disease. This is far worse than my experiences before. I am quite shocked that nets seem to be shared between tanks, etc. I will not get any more fish until I have set up a small quarantine tank. My own fish are healthy and I would not risk it.

I will get to know a few breeders in the local area and join a club. I know I will eventually have extra tanks and am eyeing up the area where my wife's piano is. Very softly, softly though. I also have a large Garage/Outbuilding that I have had double glazed now. I have plenty of room to recreate the same set up I had when I was 16. Let's see. I will retire in a year or two and have plenty of time.

I have been given some advice on the lighting by another forum member. I can see myself ditching the Elite hood though and replacing it with some creation of my own that will house more units. (In the old days I used to cut out one of the big sides of a 1 gallon oil can and fit a lampholder in the pouring hole. As all the tanks would have cover glasses this made it easy to move lights around, etc. However, I would not return to incandescent lamps now - just too costly to run and not as advanced as the modern stuff).

Best wishes

 

[korky]

Welcome to the forum Korky. I am guessing that your 60 mm tank is really a 60 cm tank. If so you are probably running a 70 to 80 litre tank. The 15W bulb is quite a low light output for a tank that size so your plant choices will be quite limited.
As WD said, the light level is much more important than the spectrum for the plants. It is one of the things that has proven true since we all used to get growlux and similar bulbs.
For fish viewing, many people prefer light in the 5500K to 10000K light spectrum regions. A so called daylight lamp will usually be about 6000K to 6500K and gives a whitish light. A lamp with a spectrum of about 5500K tends to look a bit yellow to people. A 10000K bulb gives a slightly bluish tint to things. A so called warm white bulb is about 2700K. It really comes down to what you like and your personal preference in light color.
Kits are made to upgrade lighting to much higher levels by putting a power compact fluorescent bulb into an existing hood. With such a kit you could get enough light jammed into a 2 ft hood to virtually blind your fish. They are made for saltwater reef people who must have very bright lights or for plant people who want no light limits on what they can have in their tanks.

Thanks for the reply. Have a look at what I replied to Waterdrop. Also, you have given me some food for thought. It is a 15w fluorescent and I hoped this was giving me a 60w equiv. You will see the way my mind is working from the reply to Waterdrop. I am still curious about the temp in the tank too. Do you reckon I am running a little hot there?
You have given me some direction on the lighting though. I appreciate that very much. My best wishes

 

[waterdrop]

It seems to work out to more like 60L or 16 US Gallons then, the the 15watt fluorescent tube is not so very far off, but I'd still probably be thinking about something closer to the 2w/G than the current 1w/G for a "low-light" technique. You could though, take your time and see what comments you get from the several good plant fellows we have here. I think especially since you are already doing some interesting plants, you'll want to up the wattage some, but you'll want not to pass into the "high-light" territory up above 2w unless you do in conciously and intend to then do a bunch of other fast growth things like CO2 and EI ferts. probably.

Yes, I think you're right, the current temp range is fine for the bronze cory but the platies and loaches would probably prefer the higher temp you mention.

Its certainly a good thing in a practical sense to have a cover between your lighting devices and the water surface - should help preserve the hardware a bit longer probably.

Enjoyed your write-up!
~~waterdrop~~

 

[korky]

It seems to work out to more like 60L or 16 US Gallons then, the the 15watt fluorescent tube is not so very far off, but I'd still probably be thinking about something closer to the 2w/G than the current 1w/G for a "low-light" technique. You could though, take your time and see what comments you get from the several good plant fellows we have here. I think especially since you are already doing some interesting plants, you'll want to up the wattage some, but you'll want not to pass into the "high-light" territory up above 2w unless you do in conciously and intend to then do a bunch of other fast growth things like CO2 and EI ferts. probably.

Yes, I think you're right, the current temp range is fine for the bronze cory but the platies and loaches would probably prefer the higher temp you mention.

Its certainly a good thing in a practical sense to have a cover between your lighting devices and the water surface - should help preserve the hardware a bit longer probably.

Enjoyed your write-up!
~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for the good advice, I will keep the lighting information in mind. I am not going to do any thing too sudden as I want the tank to settle into its own equilibrium. I will just monitor it carefully and experiment bit by bit over time. I know that any jungle undergrowth plants that have leaves with red undersides are far more effective at collecting light. My wife did Botany at Uni and told me this. I suspect that the same generally applies to aquatic palnts and that broader leafed plants collect light more effectively that narrow leaved plants. There again, she suspects that grassier aquaticic plants can take over a lot of the surface light collection ore once they get very long. Different stategies: it all fascinates me. Stay happy

 

[korky]

So, it has been nearly a year since I set the tank up. All is fine but there have been problems along the way.

The lighting has settled down to a 15w FloraGlo on for 11 hours a day. Cryptos have done very well as has Vallis. Have had thread algae but have kept it under control.

I have a snail problem. Damm things must have come in on one of plants. I crush them against the glass and the fish love that.

No real problems with the water. Used rainwater with some bogwood to start with, but a little too soft. I took the bogwood out after 6 months. I change 25% of the water every couple of months. Clean filter every month, change charcoal carts every few months. Temp 79-80.

I will get a second tank I hope: much larger.

I have learnt to be very careful when acquiring fish after disease got into the tank twice. First I lost all my zebras and neons. A horrible rot of fins and bodies. Loaches, Catfish, Shark all fine though.

When I was sure the tank was clean of infection, I had 5 wagtail Platys. These were fine and started breeding. Some chasing of adults by Red Finned Shark though. More bumptious that vicious.

Much later I introduced an extra female and was wiped out by another rotting disease. Brown patches on bodies and rotting fins. All Platys killed, all other fish fine.

I recently (carefully) acquired 4 lovely ruby barbs and the shark (now 4") chased them for a day. (I think a he as it has a white tip to dorsal from time to time). All is OK now after a few days.

Thanks for guidance when I started out last year.

BTW - I picked up a copy of an early 'All about Tropical Fish' on Ebay for 0.99p A good book that my father used to have.

 

[waterdrop]

Nice to hear from you again korky. I have a crypt of the brown or red variety that has come back from being only roots and a crown long ago and now looks good but seems stuck at a certain size and never seems to grow any bigger. Its probably my low-light situation and liquid carbon instead of real CO2.

Snails seem to me to be really best handled as just an ongoing thing. As you say, the fish enjoy eating crushed snail whenever you have the time and you can also do the periodic thing of leaving lettuce leaf or other veggies overnight and seeing if you can attract any snails for removal. At best it usually just helps keep the snail population down to a manageable level.

Your story is a good warning for members about how good it is to use a Q/H tank rather than introducing new fish directly into an established community.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

Thanks for coming back with your story Korky. I am glad yo hear you have had some success with the tank and plants. It is a hard lesson to learn that a quarantine tank is well worth having. The crypts sound like some fun to grow, I only have a few C aponogetifolia for crypts but I really like them in my larger tanks. They are too big for a small tank though.

 

[korky]

Thanks for your replies and advice. My apolgies for the delay in posting. The disease sorted itself out and I lost all the Platies. The red tailed shark has grown considerably and is mostly placid albeit a litlle 'playful' sometimes. Not shy. I introduced two pairs of Rosy Barbs that have settled down very well and grown. Active and fun to watch. The snails are under control, manged in part by the Shark and the Barbs. I have seen them picking off the tiny ones. Sadly, they enjoyed the Hygrophila too. Other than that, the plants are all fine really. There is a mature substrate. I think I have the lighting correct now at 12 hours. The room is very dull or dark at other times. I have learnt some impotant don'ts from the last year and am ready to get another similar tank for isolation purposes. I will try to make it look nice too. Thanks again.