Serious Problems With Tank!

[OIJ]

I have some serious problems with my tank at the moment. Serious! And I dont know what to do. Hope somebody can help me out.

I have 2.16 WPG gallon in a 64 US gallon tank and I have one Nutrafin CO2 unit, I recently added a 2 liter bottle to the nutrafin unit to increase CO2. With this setup I had around 70 bubbles per minute. At the time I increased the lights, before I installed any CO2. As a result I got BGA which I was able to cure with Maracyn, much like Houndour. Now I have an outbrake of BBA and I was hoping to hold it back by increasing CO2. Tank looks very bad, SAErs have been having a feast. So much food! I have been using Seachem ferst, trying to emulate the EI method that way.

I have noticed that my 6 Discus have had problems with breathing but now this morning they were all hanging at the top reaching for oxygen!!!! Two of them acted like they were drunk.

I noticed, yesterday that they were having some problems so I increased surface agitation with the outlet of my filter. This morning I took out the Nutrafin unit and installed an air pump that I took from my 20 gallon in order to try to increase oxygen.

All parameters are ok. NO3 has been around 10, PH around 6.5 or 7 (difficult to say with the Sera test kit), Kh is at 4.

I really hope somebody can help out. I am willing to do almost everything to correct the problems I am having at the moment.

 

[houndour]

Ok with a KH of 4 and a pH of 6.5 to 7 could mean you CO2 is anywhere between 13ppm and 42ppm (according to http/www.tropica.dk/article.asp?type=aquaristic&id=445).

Does your pH test kit only give you increments of .5? If so then I would get a new pH test kit. I have the API one which goes up in 0.2.

The way your Discus are acting sounds like they were suffering from lack of oxygen. You did the right thing by increasing surface agitation.

I don't think that CO2 has an effect on the amount of Oxygen in the water. I think the 2 are independent. Although I've not met anyone yet that confirm what exactly happens when your CO2 levels are too high.

Most people that have lost fish due to introducing CO2 is because of pH swings I think.

I'm not sure how to help with the Discus. I understand they aren't the easiest to keep, but i know nothing about them.

As for BBA. Have you been following Zigs post? http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=111522

 

[zig]

This tank really needs pressurised co2, its to big IMO for DIY co2, also to try and control something like bba with DIY co2 is nearly impossible, although im surprised your fish are gasping at the surface even at 42ppm co2 it seem a bit low for that to be happening, perhaps the rate is a lot higher and your test kit is way off.

You could try the Excel, it has been working for me, so far so good, just read through the thread, it will definatly stop the growth of the bba and start to kill it, but this is not a long term solution for me or probably for you, i will need pressurised co2 to make sure my co2 levels are stable as my DIY mix is also giving me problems and cannot cut it for my tank, if i continue with DIY co2 i know the bba will more than likely come back, how long that will take i dont know.

Once you get the bba under control using Excel you must remove any infected areas of the plants and also throughly clean any of your equipment in the tank, filters heaters....everything, im going to use a weak bleach dip to clean the equipment once the treatment is finished.

From then on you could supplement your co2 with the Excel this will ensure you have enough carbon for the plants and should hold off any further outbreak of bba, but this will work out expensive for a 65 gallon tank and pressurised is still the way to go IMO.

I dont know what else to suggest really other run an airstone overnight at lights off if the fish are gasping at the surface in the morning.

Edit: Just be aware that using the Excel poses certain risks to your fish also but if you are careful and monitor them each day during traetment everything should be ok.

 

[OIJ]

Houndour - I have been thinking about getting a new ph kit, the kit gives only increments of 0.5 and the colours from 6.5 to 7.0 are too similar.

Zig - I was not trying to battle BBA at all. It came just recently as I was planning on increasing CO2. I think the CO2 injection should not be causing this. According to everything it should not be too high.

I think there is something else happening and it comes from the substrate maybe. How likely is that? I don't know. I just remember that the tank suddenly changed and the fish I had before the discus started breathing more heavily. I did not do anything because I thought it would get betterI have also noticed that from the beginning the discus have been breathing more heavily than in the store and they had them in a planted tank, much less planted than mine.

I went home for lunch and they looked much better, thank god. And houndour...it is not so difficult to keep discus. You only need good clean water.

Zig - If I clean everything thoroughly and install it again. How am I supposed to start the tank up again? I would have to build up good bacteria again. Where am I supposed to keep the discus in the meantime?

 

[zig]

You dont have to strip the tank down, just clean all the equipment inside it, heater, filter intake, spraybar any tubing inside the tank, your diffuser etc just anything like that, if you have bba on the substrate try and remove it or bury it deep into it, remove all the affected leaves.

BBA comes from unstable co2 levels it wouldnt have anything to do with the substrate, unless you introduced it to the tank from other infected plants, its hard to know but co2 is usually the culprit.

I dont really know about the needs of Discus, but if they are breathing heavily and gasping at the surface you are injecting to much co2.

 

[OIJ]

I have something related to cleaning to do on coming Saturday! Then I will just run the tank on low lights for a while until I buy a pressurized CO2 unit, they are at GBP 250 here, so they are not cheap.

The breathing thing is strange because I could see it even before I bought them in the fish I had before and then I had no CO2. This is strange in my opinion.

 

[zig]

You could try and buy a regulator and needle valve seperatly and then get your hands on an ordinary co2 bottle, if you are going to buy a kit type setup the 500g bottles are very small and will need changeing very regularily on a 65 gallon tank, i would check around welding suppliers or people like that first of all, 250GBP is very expensive.

 

[OIJ]

I wont go that way. It is cheaper for me to buy it at 250 pounds than to look for all these things and put them togeather.
I cleaned everything very well tonight and will clean it better in a few days. I took out the Nutrafin unit...which they say is for a 180 liter tank so that alone should in fact almost be enough.
I think I wont touch CO2 until I get pressurized CO2 from now on.
Maybe I should do like George always does when he got into problems in the past, just throw everything out and start again?

 

[OIJ]

If someone is interested, here is a link about oxygen in an aquarium/pond

http/article.discusnews.com/cat-02/oxygen1.shtml