Seriosuly Thinking Of Starting A Reef Set Up?

[Ian H]

Right been looking through loads of posts on here, taking in as much as i can

Really want a reef tank, how much harder are these to keep than a FOWLR set up? from what i understand theres alot more checks to be done? another thing im struggling to find out are the costs

i know its going to cost a lot but since i dont know what im looking for i can't really price anything

what size of tank will i need? Would something 48" long 18", high, 12" deep be enough? works out to around 170 litres?

also whats a sump? whats it used for?

what are power heads? are they used to give the water a current?

sorry for all the newbie questions, just trying to gather as much info as i can before i go out and start buying things!

 

[orange shark]

powerheads cause the water to flow through live rock which will filter it

 

[sacramonel]

Answers to your questions as well as I can . . .

Difficulty of reef tanks varies depending of what type of reef you are striving for. A reef consisting of mainly soft corals will be easier to maintain than that which is populated with LPS and SPS coral. That being said it is always better to maintain perfect conditions.

It doesn't HAVE to cost a fortune. But it is better to acquire better equipment. It is not advised to skimp on the circulation, lighting and skimmer. You could start inexpensive and upgrade. But Trust me, its much better to get a head start. NEVER skimp on the skimmer. Thats my .02.

That size tank would be adequate. The bigger the better. It's easier to maintain the parameters with a larger tank. Plus the aquascaping is easier since there is more room to play with.

A sump is a secound water housing area. It is usually fitted under the main tank. With a sump the water volume is increased. Also, it is used to hide reactors, skimmers, and heaters.

Powerheads are little pumps that push water around in the tank. These are VERY important. The more flow the better. I think the rule is 20x turnover.

 

[idlefingers]

Right been looking through loads of posts on here, taking in as much as i can

Really want a reef tank, how much harder are these to keep than a FOWLR set up? from what i understand theres alot more checks to be done? another thing im struggling to find out are the costs

I'm fairly new to marines myself (had my tank running for just over 5 weeks now and got my first coral a little over a week ago) so I don't have that much to go on, but in my opinion so far, yes, reef keeping is more effort and cost than a FOWLR setup... but it's worth it! There are more tests to be done and dosing of supplements to replace used up elements but, it needn't be complicated.

As for cost.. A LOT! I've spent about £1300 on my 240 ltr tank and not much of that is reef-specific.. pretty much half of it was on live rock!

i know its going to cost a lot but since i dont know what im looking for i can't really price anything

what size of tank will i need? Would something 48" long 18", high, 12" deep be enough? works out to around 170 litres?

Have a look around the pinned threads in both this forum and the nano forum.. There's loads of info around.

also whats a sump? whats it used for?

In it's most simple way, a sump is (normally) a tank beneith the display tank which is plumbed into the display tank. Water goes from the tank into the sump and then back up. You can hide most equipment in the sump, perform water changes in it and even put sand and live rock in a section and create a refugium for algae and micro-fauna to thrive.

Check out Melevs Reef for loads of info.

what are power heads? are they used to give the water a current?

Powerheads have an impeller which is driven by a small motor which pumps water. Good powerheads for reef tanks are ones which have a good wide flow and move a lot of water per hour. Many people also use wave boxes to create more natural water movement. You'll find a lot of info about water movement needed in reef tanks in the pinned topics.

If you have a fish shop nearby, it might be a good idea to ask them to show you some equipment and explain how it works so you can get a feel for them. Be wary of advice from fish shops, though..

Hope this helps!

 

[AK77]

As far as reefs go, really the bigger the tank the better. This is mainly due to the larger water capacity, which results (in theory) in more stable parameters.

4ft long is fine, but I'd go with something a little taller (24") and 18" minimum front to back. Once you start aquascaping with live rock, you loose a good portion of the bottom of the tank, so allowing for this with more room front to back is a good idea. Plus it means you can keep larger fish and cram in more goodies

A sump is basically a another tank that sits underneath the display tank. These are very useful as it means that equipment like heaters and protein skimmers can be placed in the sump, as opposed to the display tank. The sump also means that the overall volume of water is increased, thereby diluting or slowing the build up of pollutants and making the water chemistry more stable (slower to change at any rate). You can also have a refugium in the sump. This is basically a chamber with relatively calm water in which macro algaes (seaweeds) can be placed and grown. These will filter the water to absort nitrates and phosphates.

With a reef tank, lighting is a prime requirement, so T5's or if possible, Metal Halides. These can be bloody expensive, although I got myself 300w of MH lighting in the form of 2 floodlights. Total cost was about £60, as opposed to spending about £250+.


Here is a list of stuff you will want, if you don't already have it.

MH lighting / T5's
Protein Skimmer
Sump (definitely worthwhile having)
Overflow box/tank drilled (if having a sump)
return pump (from sump if having one)
Powerheads
Heaters
Aragonite sandbed (or another calcium carbonate based substrate)
Water testing kits (Calcium, Nitrates, Ammonia, Nitrites, Phosphates, PH, Alkalinity, Magnesium,)
UV sterilizer
Reactors (canisters that rowaphos, charcoal, calcium etc can be placed in)

Overdraft
Ear plugs to ignore GF or wife
Aspirin/Paracetemol/Alcohol for when things go horribly Pete Tong

 

[WayneVT08]

But you don't need the calcium reactor and the phosphate reactor. So don't really worry about that so much.Just stay on top of parameters and you shall be fine.But you don't need the calcium reactor and the phosphate reactor. So don't really worry about that so much.Just stay on top of parameters and you shall be fine.AND you really don't need a UV Sterilizer, just a lot more money that you don't want to spend, and neither of the three things i mentioned are needed.

 

[Ian H]

thanks for the info guys, I've been looking for a decent size tank but can't find anything anyone know any decent sites for one?

can the holes be drilled yourself? obviously its not going to be a case of just whip the drill out and go crazy, i would assume start with a really small size and go REALLY slow, working your way up? or does anyone know of a site that comes with them ready drilled? also what size of tank would be needed for the sump?

 

[AK77]

But you don't need the calcium reactor and the phosphate reactor. So don't really worry about that so much.Just stay on top of parameters and you shall be fine.But you don't need the calcium reactor and the phosphate reactor. So don't really worry about that so much.Just stay on top of parameters and you shall be fine.AND you really don't need a UV Sterilizer, just a lot more money that you don't want to spend, and neither of the three things i mentioned are needed.

Hmm yeah they aren't absolutely essential but, like a sump, they are a worthwhile investment. The reactors can be purchased relatively cheaply and are probably the best way to stay on top of water parameters - particularly the phosphates. I've had macro algaes in my tank for the best part of 8 weeks or more and although the nitrates have now vanished, the phosphates remain at 0.75ppm.

Similarly with the UV sterilizer. I'd sooner spend £30-£40 on a sterilizer than have a bacterial infection or parasite sweep through my tank and wipe out a few hundred pounds worth of fish.

You can drill the tank yourself Ian. You will need diamond holesaws that are used for cutting cermaic tiles. There are places that will build a tank to your exact requirements and drill it for you. Alternatively you can get an overflow box, which syphons the water from the display tank to the sump. I have one.. in fact I will have 3 at some time this week... I already have 2 sodding faulty ones and hopefully one that works properly will arrive soon.

I'll try finding the site that manufactures and pre-drills the tanks for you.

 

[SkiFletch]

I'll chime in here on tank size and sumps since I think this is largely overlooked. When selecting a tank size, your life will be MUCH easier if it is wide front to back. On a 30" or longer tank, make sure its at least 18" wide. 12" and you start getting into difficulty aquascaping your live rock. Some of my favorite tank sizes are the 40g and 50g breeders, and the 75g and 65g standards; dimensions 36x18x12, 48x18x16, 48x18x20, and 36x18x24" respectively. The 30L is also ok at 48x12x12. Stacking rocks tall and thin is difficult

As for drilling, you buy a drill bit appropriate to the bulkhead used and just drill away. Its much easier than stepping up as you go really slowly with drill bit speed when drilling your hole. Its actually really easy.

As for sump tank size, really depends on the display tank and how much room you have in your stand.

 

[Ian H]

ok few questions:

will a 48" x 24" x 24" in 10mm glass be ok for a reef set up?

with the power heads i understand you need 20x flow rate, but 20 times what? litres or gallons?

also as you do i've been thinking of what to stock it with fish wise, i understand that you can;t have as many fish in there as you could with a f.w set up is this because of how big the fish get? anyways what i would like in there:

2 common clown fish
1 blue tang
1 yellow tang
6 Blue/Green Reef Chromis
2 or 3 blood shrimp

now i have no idea if this would be over/under stocked so just wanting to know before it shatters my dream

also how much live rock will i need? the tank will be around 450 litres/100 uk gallons

 

[AK77]

ok few questions:

will a 48" x 24" x 24" in 10mm glass be ok for a reef set up?

with the power heads i understand you need 20x flow rate, but 20 times what? litres or gallons?

also as you do i've been thinking of what to stock it with fish wise, i understand that you can;t have as many fish in there as you could with a f.w set up is this because of how big the fish get? anyways what i would like in there:

2 common clown fish
1 blue tang
1 yellow tang
6 Blue/Green Reef Chromis
2 or 3 blood shrimp

now i have no idea if this would be over/under stocked so just wanting to know before it shatters my dream

also how much live rock will i need? the tank will be around 450 litres/100 uk gallons

Yup should be a real nice size for a reef setup.

Powerheads is minimum of 20 times tank volume, so it doesnt matter whether thats in litres or gallons... it just needs to be a minimum of 20 times. I'd be looking more towards 30-40 times tank volume though with a reef setup, because as the coral grows and more is added, it becomes more difficult to avoid dead spots in the water - IE no water circulating or not moving fast enough.

Tangs are some of my favourite fish. My only word of caution is they get whitespot at the drop of a hat. They are highly susceptible to it. If you go with tangs, Id recommend you get a quarantine tank (a good practice to get into anyway) and isolate the fish for a minimum of two weeks. I'd also medicate the water with a whitespot treatment to eliminate any chance of the parasite making it into your display tank.

Other fish to consider are coral beauties, dwarf fire angel, bi-colour angel (bloody expensive but very pretty), bandai cardinal. I'd steer clear of damsel fish (chromis are fine) but the rest are annoying territorial little b@$t@rds on the whole. Goby's are nice too. Some wrasses are gorgeous too so have a look at which are compatible.

Fireshrimp are great. I have one, as well as 2 skunk cleaners and a peppermint shrimp.

 

[Ian H]

ok few questions:

will a 48" x 24" x 24" in 10mm glass be ok for a reef set up?

with the power heads i understand you need 20x flow rate, but 20 times what? litres or gallons?

also as you do i've been thinking of what to stock it with fish wise, i understand that you can;t have as many fish in there as you could with a f.w set up is this because of how big the fish get? anyways what i would like in there:

2 common clown fish
1 blue tang
1 yellow tang
6 Blue/Green Reef Chromis
2 or 3 blood shrimp

now i have no idea if this would be over/under stocked so just wanting to know before it shatters my dream

also how much live rock will i need? the tank will be around 450 litres/100 uk gallons

Yup should be a real nice size for a reef setup.

Powerheads is minimum of 20 times tank volume, so it doesnt matter whether thats in litres or gallons... it just needs to be a minimum of 20 times. I'd be looking more towards 30-40 times tank volume though with a reef setup, because as the coral grows and more is added, it becomes more difficult to avoid dead spots in the water - IE no water circulating or not moving fast enough.

Tangs are some of my favourite fish. My only word of caution is they get whitespot at the drop of a hat. They are highly susceptible to it. If you go with tangs, Id recommend you get a quarantine tank (a good practice to get into anyway) and isolate the fish for a minimum of two weeks. I'd also medicate the water with a whitespot treatment to eliminate any chance of the parasite making it into your display tank.

Other fish to consider are coral beauties, dwarf fire angel, bi-colour angel (bloody expensive but very pretty), bandai cardinal. I'd steer clear of damsel fish (chromis are fine) but the rest are annoying territorial little b@$t@rds on the whole. Goby's are nice too. Some wrasses are gorgeous too so have a look at which are compatible.

Fireshrimp are great. I have one, as well as 2 skunk cleaners and a peppermint shrimp.

ah right, so at minimum i would be looking for some powerheads that could run at 2000gallons (together obviously not for one!!) and then over the next few months double that amount?

The blue tang has to be my favourite amazingly beautiful fish shame about the news with the white spot oh well im having one so i'll have to get myself a seperate tank like you say

i just noticed the price on the fireshrimp but then again they are lovely! so maybe i will just have the one

So would that be over stocked? I would also like a starfish of some sort maybe a comb star (i think? one of these http/www.tropicalfish4u.co.uk/acatalog/s...ting_star.html)

 

[AK77]

Yup with a reef setup, the sky is pretty much the limit with regard to waterflow. Some corals don't require as strong water flow as others or as strong lighting requirements, but you can position them at favourable/suitable locations within the tank. I have a 180 litre tank and will be purchasing 2 x Koralia 3's soon (my poor wallet) at 3200 LPH/850 GPH. I also have a 1750 LPH pump in the sump, which produces about 1000 LPH of water movement through the overflow box/return pipework. This will give me about 40 times the tank volume and decrease the volume in my wallet by about the same!

Yup I love regal tangs (if thats what you were referring to?? Dory? ). I had 2. Both died due to whitespot and took my copperband buttefly with it . £100 worth of fish gone. They should be ok, but definitely get a quarantine tank (£20 for a 2ft tank from petsmart. 3ft are pretty cheap too and they are clearseal). Medicate the water as standard and raise the temperature to about 80f. If they have any parasites on them, this will speed up the life cycle and kill the parasite quicker. Id also recommend running a UV sterilizer on the display tank too. Prevention is better than cure. Also if they develop it in the display tank, get them into quarantine immediately. Also, quarantine all new fish too, as they may carry it and the tangs will catch it much easier.

Yup fireshrimp aren't cheap. Usually about £18 a throw. They are worth it though because the colours are spectacular and they do a good job of cleaning tangs. The skunk cleaner shrimp that I have wouldn't go near my tangs, but the fireshrimp did do a good job, but the whitespot was just too much for it to keep up with.

I wouldn't recommend getting a starfish for at least 6 months or more. The sandsifters sift the sand looking for microorganisms to eat. The starfish will starve to death most likely, if placed in the tank before the tank being established for 6 months or more. Dont be fooled by that picture either on the website. I bought one thinking it was like that.... but it wasnt what I received!

 

[STD]

If by blue Tang you mean Regal I wouldnt put one in a 4ft tank

They are gorgeous but as others have mentioned they are a white spot magnet

Also they are very active fish and grow very fast

I had one that grew from under and inch to over 6 inches in under 6 months

As they get bigger they can also get aggresive

If you want a Tang in a 4ft tank I'd go for a Kole tang or a Yellow

 

[Ian H]

got any good links for some equipment? i can;t seem to find out the GPH or LPH on any power heads? another thing im afraid of is getting a bad name item (be it skimmer, power head whatever) is Koralia a good make? 3 of them would be enough to start of wouldnt it? since they would be producing 2550GPH . Although just done a google and at £62 a piece it may take a while to get this tank set up! but its something i really want so im prepared to sit and wait. Learnt my lesson with rushing with my F.W set up (didnt cycle (wouldnt dream of doing it now though!!)yeah a regal tang (my tank is going to look like the whole cast of finding nemo the way its going ) I'm planning to upgrade my F.W tank to the same size so i'll have a 3ft tank spare (it's true about always upgrading!)will deffo look into a UV sterilizer then, will it 100% guarantee no whitespot and other parasites?shame about the starfish, was looking forward to having one just like that! i've read that you should take ages to introduce new fish so i would have waited a while anyways

If by blue Tang you mean Regal I wouldnt put one in a 4ft tankThey are gorgeous but as others have mentioned they are a white spot magnetAlso they are very active fish and grow very fastI had one that grew from under and inch to over 6 inches in under 6 monthsAs they get bigger they can also get aggresiveIf you want a Tang in a 4ft tank I'd go for a Kole tang or a Yellow

ah thats a kick in the balls thats the one fish i wanted most