Sensible Internal Filter Recommendation?

[bogusmove]

Hi all. I've been keeping fish for years, I have 3 tanks, and I've used a few different internal filters and the rena XP3 external.

Now, the Rena XP3, I like. It's the only external I've used, but still, it's sensible in that the water is drawn up through 3 good sized buckets in sequence, simple and effective.

However... none of the internal filters I've used seem to be designed around this basic principal. Typically they are a long thin rectangular shaped device with slots for water inlet all up the sides. This means the majority of the water is sucked in through the slots towards the top, near the impeller, and the water flow towards the bottom is relatively minor. Fluval, Rena and Aqua Vital internal filters all seem to be like this anyway.

Why is not the same design principal of the Rena XP3 used for internal filters? The scale is much smaller certainly but surely one wants to be able to filter through a choice of medias in sequence?

For example, look at this image of the Aqua Vital 600.

This filter is modular, the 2 bottom box bits come off and can be seperately filled as you would expect from the look of the picture. If there were no slots in the top box then this would be really great, but there is.

Clearly one could use external filters... but for a small tank, I don't really want the bother, and I could modify the Aqua Vital too for that matter, but I'd probably rather find the right tool for the job.

So, questions, does this issue frustrate anyone else or am I alone? Is there a filter that meets my requirements?

Regards.

Michael.

 

[SuperColey1]

I think as long as your ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0 and Nitrate is not too high then the filter is doing its job.

I have Fluval 3 and only 1 type of media inside i.e. 3 foam pads (1 where the carbon is supposed to go) and I have never had any problems.

Its all about how technical you want to get really I suppose. It does the job I need it for and my tank is at about the max size for this filter so if it was gonna struggle with any it would be mine.

All I need to do is once a week with the water change I unclip the media cartridge and wash the 3 pads in the water I've removed and then put them back in the cartridge and away we go again.

All this apart, and I know I'll get lambasted by the experts here, I can't see the point in paying a bumper load more cash for an external that means I've got more gear outside the tank and doesn't do me any more good (And removes Bettas favourite hiding place)

Cosmetically I can see the point in external filters but I have aheavily planted tank and you can't see the internal filter, internal heater, or internal UV (Some parts of the filter spray bar are in view)

Its a personal preference thing I suppose. A lot of people do swear by externals, but I don't know if that is from reading that its better, or seeing something it does differently, or if it is scientifically better.

I think I'll stick to my old cheapo to back the plants up on the ammonia killing.

 

[bogusmove]

Hi. Thanks for your comments. I really quite agree with everything you said. I've followed up below to illustrate what's driving my current level of frustration.

I think as long as your ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0 and Nitrate is not too high then the filter is doing its job.

Yes, and indeed, all the internal filters I have are capable of doing that... but... if the filters job is to do more than just zero your nh3 and no2 then it's trickier. Perhaps I should have included this in the original post, but I didn't want to complicate things with information which is slightky beside the point. I want to use peat filtering in my 50L tank. I am using the Aqua Vital for this, with the top peat filled (without the supplied foam pad, as it would reduce the volume of peat I could insert to about 3 cubic cm). It's not ideal though. Flow through the bottom is extremely poor.

I have Fluval 3 and only 1 type of media inside i.e. 3 foam pads (1 where the carbon is supposed to go) and I have never had any problems.

I agree. I have a fluvel 3 too, and I've been using it with only the original pads for years. It works to zero the nh3 and no2. It isn't very ideal for putting random media in as it has no compartments and does suffer from the problems I described in my original post, specifically I've noticed that there is a strong flow/sucktion where the slots are where you press to release the filter chamber from the power head. This obviously reduces the efficiency of the design.

All this apart, and I know I'll get lambasted by the experts here, I can't see the point in paying a bumper load more cash for an external that means I've got more gear outside the tank and doesn't do me any more good (And removes Bettas favourite hiding place)

Cosmetically I can see the point in external filters but I have aheavily planted tank and you can't see the internal filter, internal heater, or internal UV (Some parts of the filter spray bar are in view)

Hehe. Personally I think externals are great. The biggest advantage as far as I'm concerned is that I don't have to disturb the tank so much, remove the lid, unplug, untangle cables, transport wet dripping stuff through home, etc... but for a relatively small tank, it's just over kill to have an external, and there may be nowhere convenient outside the tank to arrange it, etc. So personally I think internals are great for small tanks, and externals are great for big ones, which is how most people use them. I use my XP3 with my 90G tank. The other smaller ones have internals.

What I want, and I can't for the life of me understand why everyone doesn't make them, is an internal filter with a design fundamentally like an external canister filter, with compartments through which water is drawn in sequence.

Michael.

 

[SuperColey1]

I seem to remember seeing in P@H, although for a very small tank and probably for one of those silly novely tanks a compatment in ternal, where you buy white bits and black bits and this and that, also I think the Aqua Cub series (Where the filter is the back of the tank has a 3 stage filter system, but obvs its part of the tank not a exchangeable unit)

Oh well not too fussed, the internal is the back up for if the plants fail.

good luck in your search

 

[bogusmove]

Cheers. I hope one exists. I expect someone has seen/used one! If noone has any recommendation then it must be mu que to rush out, set up a company and start manufacturing them! ;-)

 

[oatfish]

Personally I really like the Tetratec internals - I have a IN 800 and it's great! Really quiet, easy and far less messy to change the sponges etc than the fluvals I have had and, due to the design of the filter "buckets" you can fill them with activated carbon/peat etc. without it going everywhere

 

[bogusmove]

Personally I really like the Tetratec internals - I have a IN 800 and it's great! Really quiet, easy and far less messy to change the sponges etc than the fluvals I have had and, due to the design of the filter "buckets" you can fill them with activated carbon/peat etc. without it going everywhere

As usual, diagrams and images available on the net aren't terribly helpful! The best I could find is this:

and this one:

It looks to me as though the larger filters are 2 stage, which is great, because one can put peat, or whatever in the top one, and a mechanical in the bottom stopping the peat from getting rubbish in it, however, perhaps you can help me here, I can't tell very easily tell, do the 2 chambers have slots in the side such that water can be sucked directly from the aquarium into both the top as well as the bottom chamber? If so, I would strongly expect it to suffer from the problems I have with the Aqua Vital, where the flow rate through the bottom chamber is very poor compared to the top...

 

[oatfish]

Yes, I was looking for diagrams on the net to post and could not find any that were that useful! I have a IN 800 and a IN 1000 which are slightly different from the one in the pic you posted, the 800 has one bucket, the 1000 has two buckets, neither of which have slots in them at all, the water enters the media from the top vis cleaverly designed plactic water "routers". The water is drawn up the back of the filter buckets and filtered through the media. This is where I come unstuck as to the actual mechanism of action, as I know it works beautifully as it collects loads of fine particles and my water is very clear! For the IN 1000 with two buckets, both buckets are always the same in terms of rubbish in them, obviously depending on which media I place in each bucket. If you want more info i can post pics...? I cannot vouch for the IN 600 or 400 but it would seem to have a similar action?

 

[bogusmove]

Yes, I was looking for diagrams on the net to post and could not find any that were that useful!
...
The water is drawn up the back of the filter buckets and filtered through the media. This is where I come unstuck as to the actual mechanism of action
...
If you want more info i can post pics...?

Don't worry, that's a hassle, and if the mechanism isn't clear to you as you handle it I doubt photos will enlighten me vastly! Heh!

Also... I have just today discovered the SICCE Shark ADV 800 filter, which my research failed to turn up before. Seems to be quite new? Now it's not ideal, because, frankly, it's a bit of a monster, I could do with a smaller model really, but I'm considering it anyway...

What you see here is a modular system. The bottom (blue) bit is the mechanical/pre filter and the black "module" can I understand contain anything... and you can add as many of the modules on as you like, forming an 11 stage filter if you had a very deep tank and filter media with low resistance LOL.

The height/length of the filter is 30cm with one module though, so it's not exactly small.

It does exactly and precisely address the fundamental problem I had with all other internals I could previously find. I might give it a go anyway, even if in another tank, or maybe use it without the module by cutting the mechanical pre filter in half and putting a bag of media on top of it, even that would basically accomplish what I wanted...

 

[oatfish]

wow I have not seen that either, it looks pretty good...!