Self-Sustaining Tank

[generkon]

Hi.

So, I've had two fishtanks before. The last one was over five years ago and since then I've been thinking about setting up a new one but never really got around to it. Recently my friend offered to give me his old 30 gallon tank and I decided now's the time to finally do it.

However, both times I previously started a fishtank things went down the exact same way. At first I'd be super excited about it and take really good care of it, but after a couple months I'd start changing the water less and less and eventually I'd give up on it and give away any fish that had survived. I just really hate changing the water and the filters.

I was wondering if anyone had ideas on how to make a tank self-sustaining. I already know that I'm going to have lots of live plants and I'm sure I'll be able to set it up really well in the first few months. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever change the water or that I wouldn't have a filter, I would just like to set it up so that I don't feel guilty if the water hadn't been changed in a month... or two...

I was also looking into having a colony of smaller things, like daphnia or shrimp, in the tank which the fish could continuously eat so I would have to feed them less, if at all. And a filtration system where I won't have to keep replacing the nasty used filters.

Basically I want to set up a mini ecosystem that doesn't need me. Can anybody help?

 

[Curiosity101]

Simple answer...no. I'm not going to lie and say the methods you're looking for don't exist... but they still require maintenance and quite a bit of knowledge (practise) with general fish keeping before you should even consider them. Otherwise you just end up with a tank full of dead fish.

The method you're looking for is called the 'Walstead method' and you're best off posting in the planted section for info on this.
Personally I wouldn't recommend it because I've not seen enough long term evidence to show that the fish thrive just as well in a walstead tank in comparison to one where regular maintenance is carried out... but that doesn't neccesarily mean the evidence isn't there. I just haven't seen anything. And I wouldn't go just accepting that it's just as good for the fish just cause it might suit the maintenance schedule you want....

Anyways, aside from answering your question directly. What is it that made you give up fish keeping first time... as in why do you get bored?

I find alot of people get bored cause they just stick a mish mash of fish and decor together with no real consideration to what it'll look like. Then once the fun of stocking it is over it just becomes a chore.

So maybe it's not so much that you need something uber low maintenance, maybe it's more that you need something that's actually tailored to you. Something you're proud of, and that you genuinely enjoy watching.

I find cichlids are big attention holders for me as they have so much personality. I reckon there are cichlids for everyone... you just have to find some that fit.

Shoaling species like tetras and the such look better in big groups of their own kind as they don't pay attention to their keepers. Maybe you had lots of little groups before... and never got to really appreciate how impressive they look when shoaling?

Same goes for bottom feeders really...

And as for actually what you want the tank to look like... well you can do some awesome aquascaping (requires maintenance such as pruning of course, but so do walsted tanks), google 'Takashi Amano'

You can set up some seriously low maintenance but stunning looking tanks. Although by low maintenance I'm talking 20% change per week or 20-40% every couple of weeks (maybe alternating...) and still keep your fish looking great and living to their full life span.

Oh by the way... changing filters? What do you mean? Do you mean the filter sponges? If so the manufacturers recommendations and the actual replacment rate are two very very different things.

The filter sponges need a quick rinse whenever the flow slows down (1-2months for an average tank). And only normally need replacing once a year or so... basically whenever they start getting a bit thin and holey.

 

[generkon]

Hey, thanks for the quick reply!

To answer your question about why I get bored, the act of changing the water did seem like a chore after a while. I remember I was always worried I would accidentally suck up one of the fish and I hated carrying the water around so I'd put it off a lot of the time. Also I'm pretty squeamish so I hated dealing with the filter in general... although now that you mention it, it sounds like I was probably changing the filter way too often.

And I agree that I was probably stocking the tank in a way that didn't make it look great, which is why I'm excited about starting a new one up.

Another reason I'm looking into this idea is that I'm a biology student and I'm interested in ecosystems, so I've been thinking about ways to set something like this up for a while. I'll definitely look into the Walstead method, it sounds pretty cool.

 

[Curiosity101]

Squeemish... It's a filter! It's just a bit of dirt... quick squeeze in the water you've just taken out of the tank and job done. Plus it only needs doing when the water flow slows.

Can you not set the tank up nearer a water source? And have you looked into something called a python gravel cleaner? You can make them yourself (see the DIY section for a full guide or google it) and you basically attach it to a tap and it automatically (sorta) empties and refills the tank. No lugging buckets around... although tbh I had a 125l tank (33gal) and the weekly water change of 5-7gal wasn't really a big deal. It only took me around 20mins to do a full change.

Don't worry about sucking fish up too much. Some of them are idiots, but most tend to have a healthy respect for syphons and steer clear. And if they don't, find something you can wedge it on so that fish can't get in... plus.... just keep and eye on it. Draining the tank of 5-7gal should only take 5-10mins. And you can watch the fish while you do it...
I normally prop mine up on something where I know the fish aren't likely to try to get into the syphon and then just watch it till the bucket is full. I don't even hold it the majority of the time.

Make sure you really plan out your stocking before you go to buy anything... that really will make the difference between whether it keeps your attention and is worth the work or not.

 

[drobbyb]

Well, we do create a mini ecosystem with each of our tanks, but with such small space we have to keep adding energy (light and food) and taking away the waste (water changes, filter maintenance). We stock our tanks much much denser than fish live in the wild. In the wild you usually find hundreds to thousands of gallons of water per fish. The reason that wild populations never even come close to our densities is there simply isn't enough food (energy). Food chains can be very complex as I am sure you know being a biology student (I was one too). It takes space to grow enough food to be self sufficient, more so than just to breed, they have to have places to hide from predators. Fish are greedy creatures. They will eat all the food they can find.

 

[Mikaila31]

The walstead method does work if the tank is setup correctly. Yes there are ways to run a tank that uses only light and water changes maybe every 2 months, but its not easy and its not for fish.

 

[the biffster]

once kept a 5x2x2 for six month
heavily planted lightly stocked
without a filter and its not as
easy as it was made out to be to
keep the water within the parameters
that are required for fish even there
were only six fish in a five foot tank
what you lose in the way of filters you
have to make up in water changes i used
to feed fish on live blood worm and dahp
abouts once a month but there was never
any left after feeding i would say it is
possible but only if you wanted one or
two very small fish in say a 6x2x2 or a 5x2x2
i only had six and it still meant quite a decent
water change each month any way i got six months out of the way
and stuck a filter on it the amount of water i used
to change dropped say from 50% a month down to
i would say to 25% a month i fond the experiment
not to be a total waste as it taught me more about
water quality and how to keep a good quality of water
i was once told the expert bit is not in keeping
fish but keeping good water for fish to live in

 

[anon02]

Hi.

So, I've had two fishtanks before. The last one was over five years ago and since then I've been thinking about setting up a new one but never really got around to it. Recently my friend offered to give me his old 30 gallon tank and I decided now's the time to finally do it.

However, both times I previously started a fishtank things went down the exact same way. At first I'd be super excited about it and take really good care of it, but after a couple months I'd start changing the water less and less and eventually I'd give up on it and give away any fish that had survived. I just really hate changing the water and the filters.

I was wondering if anyone had ideas on how to make a tank self-sustaining. I already know that I'm going to have lots of live plants and I'm sure I'll be able to set it up really well in the first few months. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever change the water or that I wouldn't have a filter, I would just like to set it up so that I don't feel guilty if the water hadn't been changed in a month... or two...

I was also looking into having a colony of smaller things, like daphnia or shrimp, in the tank which the fish could continuously eat so I would have to feed them less, if at all. And a filtration system where I won't have to keep replacing the nasty used filters.

Basically I want to set up a mini ecosystem that doesn't need me. Can anybody help?

What you need is a dvd titled aquarium, it`s about an hour and a half long and has an automatic back to start feature

 

[the biffster]

Hi.

So, I've had two fishtanks before. The last one was over five years ago and since then I've been thinking about setting up a new one but never really got around to it. Recently my friend offered to give me his old 30 gallon tank and I decided now's the time to finally do it.

However, both times I previously started a fishtank things went down the exact same way. At first I'd be super excited about it and take really good care of it, but after a couple months I'd start changing the water less and less and eventually I'd give up on it and give away any fish that had survived. I just really hate changing the water and the filters.

I was wondering if anyone had ideas on how to make a tank self-sustaining. I already know that I'm going to have lots of live plants and I'm sure I'll be able to set it up really well in the first few months. I'm not saying I wouldn't ever change the water or that I wouldn't have a filter, I would just like to set it up so that I don't feel guilty if the water hadn't been changed in a month... or two...

I was also looking into having a colony of smaller things, like daphnia or shrimp, in the tank which the fish could continuously eat so I would have to feed them less, if at all. And a filtration system where I won't have to keep replacing the nasty used filters.

Basically I want to set up a mini ecosystem that doesn't need me. Can anybody help?

What you need is a dvd titled aquarium, it`s about an hour and a half long and has an automatic back to start feature

yeah i know that one i have seen
it there is also a good screen
saver that's a fish tank i used to
have on my PC it makes your monitor
look just like a fish tank
fish tank

 

[kizno1]

I agree with Curiosity in that if you pick your stocking carefully it could keep your interest alot better. Maybe instead of having loads of fish you could go for a breeding pair of cichlids that way watching the fry grow might keep you interested. Some thing like Laetacara curviceps/Dwarf Flag Cichlid would be perfect. There only small but with a group of fry they would look great. Or maybe just 1 big fish rather than loads would be better. Something like a Channa ornatipinnis. They dont like waterchanges all the time so aslong as you had a good filter and lots of plants the tank would be perfect for 1.

 

[roadmaster]

Am currently running a heavily planted,Non CO2,low tech, low light ,80 gallon tank with approx, 45 to 50 fish. Tank was set in july of this year and has received two 25 percent water changes due largely to re-arranging,and adding some new plant's.
Tank is dosed with EI method once every couple weeks mostly Nitrogen and pottasium.
The waste created by the fish and foods offered feed the plant's but there's no getting around cleaning the filter in my view/expierience.
For reference see.. (Tom Barr's Non CO2 method and planted aquarium)

 

[Curiosity101]

Am currently running a heavily planted,Non CO2,low tech, low light ,80 gallon tank with approx, 45 to 50 fish. Tank was set in july of this year and has received two 25 percent water changes due largely to re-arranging,and adding some new plant's.
Tank is dosed with EI method once every couple weeks mostly Nitrogen and pottasium.
The waste created by the fish and foods offered feed the plant's but there's no getting around cleaning the filter in my view/expierience.
For reference see.. (Tom Barr's Non CO2 method and planted aquarium)

^^ My old 33 gal stocked with 13 rummynose, 2 bolivian rams, 7 kuhli loach and 2 honey gouramis barely registered a nitrate reading at any point due to the fact the large amount of plants counter acted any that was made.

This still however, in my opinion, did not justify me not changing water as I pretty much asumed there would be more going on in the tank than just the nitrogen cycle. I could see there would be no issue with me not changing the water due to nitrates... but who knows what else is building up that we don't/can't test for.

Thats why I said earlier that although methods exist for keeping tanks in a maintenance free (ish) way exist... until I see some real results where people have been doing it and are seemingly having just as much breeding success and where the fish are definitely all growing and living to their full potential... I can't just say 'yeah just stop doing water changes... so long as you have plants it'll be fine...'

 

[ian]

Supercoley successfully bred schultzei cory, in his low tech planted tank. The tank hadn't had a water change for about a year in all. It was just topped off. It is possible in a planted tank, however i certainly wouldn't advise a newb to try it. You need to understand the way things work in a planted tank before you try any 'Walstad' method. I have also personally seen the tank and he has fully grown fish in there. Also the cherry shrimp breed like rabbits.

 

[mark4785]

Am currently running a heavily planted,Non CO2,low tech, low light ,80 gallon tank with approx, 45 to 50 fish. Tank was set in july of this year and has received two 25 percent water changes due largely to re-arranging,and adding some new plant's.
Tank is dosed with EI method once every couple weeks mostly Nitrogen and pottasium.
The waste created by the fish and foods offered feed the plant's but there's no getting around cleaning the filter in my view/expierience.
For reference see.. (Tom Barr's Non CO2 method and planted aquarium)

^^ My old 33 gal stocked with 13 rummynose, 2 bolivian rams, 7 kuhli loach and 2 honey gouramis barely registered a nitrate reading at any point due to the fact the large amount of plants counter acted any that was made.

This still however, in my opinion, did not justify me not changing water as I pretty much asumed there would be more going on in the tank than just the nitrogen cycle. I could see there would be no issue with me not changing the water due to nitrates... but who knows what else is building up that we don't/can't test for.

Thats why I said earlier that although methods exist for keeping tanks in a maintenance free (ish) way exist... until I see some real results where people have been doing it and are seemingly having just as much breeding success and where the fish are definitely all growing and living to their full potential... I can't just say 'yeah just stop doing water changes... so long as you have plants it'll be fine...'

Not changing the water for long periods can deplete carbonate hardness level which will lead to PH swings. Some have argued PH swings themselves are not harmful but I've seen documentation of entire pond stocks dieing after the owner has found that the PH has dropped considerable due to a low carbonate hardness level.

I suppose you may also remove water to get rid of algae spores and dirt that takes a bit longer to decompose.

If a person wants to avoid water changes, it would be necessary to have a much larger volume of water, akin to a water capacity found in a medium sized pond, as it will take much longer for the KH level to deplete to a dangerous level and it will take longer for ammonia/nitrite/nitrate concentrations to build up. Due to neglecting the water changes, you'd have to keep a close eye on the water parameters which is just another chore.

 

[Mikaila31]

I'm gonna be difficult. In a tank that receives no water changes, the issue with loss of buffing capacity (kH/GH) has to do with the nitrogen cycle. The end product nitrate can form HNO3(nitric acid) which is what causes that loss in pH. As you let a tank go without waterchanges more and more nitrate is produced, which reaches a equilibrium of NO3- and HNO3 depending on other factors in the water. Now as more HNO3 is produced it eats away at the KH/GH or the bases in the water that make up the buffering capacity. A tank will continue to do this till the buffering capacity is greatly diminished, then your pH will crash because HNO3 as an acid is still being produced but the tank has ran out of the molecules that normally react with it. This is a pH crash also know as old tank syndrome. Now there are two ways to try to avoid this. Plants take in nitrates and reducing NO3- effects the equilibrium and also reduces HNO3. They also consume NH3+ preventing NO3- from forming. The issue is that plants will also take a toll on water hardness factors Mg+2 and Ca+2. If you have really hard water with high KH a tank will be stable for a long time. If you are aware and pay attention to the buffering capacity of your water, you could just throw a tums tablet in when it gets low.