"seeding" A Filter

[dcarmor927]

i understand everything about regular filter care and such, but how do you "seed" a filter?? i dont have space on my 55 gallon to run the new marineland penguin 100 filter i just got, so its just waiting on my 10 gallon...i dont want to do a whole fishless cycle for the filter if i can use my own media(lol how do i do this?)...also when i change the filter pad on the penguin, where is the rest of the bacteria? does it build up on the bio wheel? thats the only other substance besides the filter pad...thanks for any help!!

 

[OldMan47]

An easy way that will often work is to clean the filter on the 55 in your 10. It is the classic filter squeezings approach but is a bit easier than the usual recommendation. I dose my tank to about 5 ppm ammonia as soon as I am done cleaning the filter in the tank. The usual result is that I find myself at the point where all ammonia is gone at the end of the first day and there is no nitrites, or almost none. It won't take long from there to fully cycled.

 

[dcarmor927]

thanks alot! thats what i did do, but wasnt sure if it was the right thing...BUT after about 22 hrs i still have roughly 5 ppm Ammonia and 0 Nitrites...i thought the bacteria would have been doing some work in that time period...should i just be more patient?

 

[Paavn]

the bacteria are supposed to grow on the bio wheel (i have the emperor series) so you can change filters and not have to worry about all your bacteria being lost. the bio wheel never needs changing either unless its broken.
how fast the bacteria bring down the ammonia levels just depends on how well you rinsed the filter media in the tank so a little waiting wouldn't do any harm

 

[dcarmor927]

Thanks for the reply Paavn! i think in about 5 days ill change another filter pad and squeeze it out again, that is if the transferred bacteria hasnt started diminishing the ammonia...thanks again!!

 

[Paavn]

were you asking how you make your own filter pad or cartridge? i was going to answer how to do that in a brief version but i wasnt sure if you wanted to do that.
what kind of filter do you have on your 55 gallon? im just curious cause if its like the one you have for your 10 gallon i could help you out with making your own filter cartridge that you wouldnt need to replace until it starts to break down (im did that for the tank im currently cycling. although i still have the original filter with the carbon and what not in it, i'll take it out and replace it with a bio sponge)

 

[waterdrop]

Hi there shoe armor and welcome to TFF!

This might be a little off topic but I see you've got good direct help from Paavn and OM47, so you're in good hands.

When thinking about filters and seeding and bacteria I like to try and get my mind into the time-frame of the bacterial world if possible. Most of us now live in a world of computers and cell/mobile-phones, microwave ovens, fast jeeps and perhaps really fast snowboard jumps, lol. Bacteria have been a bit slow on the uptake of these modern conveniences and tend to still be a little more in touch with the slower aspects of the natural world if you get my drift (is drift a snowboard term, I'm clueless, lol.)

Sorry, anyway, even though some bacteria can divide and multiply very fast, the 2 beneficial species that we care about for our filters are relatively slower than many others. When bacteria grow, they have to go through a "lag phase" prior to their "growth phase" and during this lag phase lots of things have to happen: They have to find a niche of space and a good surface to stick to and other species of bacteria are competing for this. The have to begin to put out stuff outside the cell wall to help form a sticky slime to help build a "biofilm." This biofilm is not random but has shape and things like micro-water-channels. Each time there is disturbance (big water changes, sponge or other media movements etc.) then some of these "lag-phase" activities will have to start over again. The often take a day or two and then in the growth phase the biofilm production can get ramped up and go faster.

By "seeding" a filter, you are hopefully saving time by getting the "right" species of bacteria in position to attach and start building, but building up mature biofilms still takes weeks and seeing various "snapshots" of the progress via our crude little substance tests really usually only shows us stuff in terms of 2 days, 3 days, time slots like that!

Hope this helps in your thinking, don't mean it to sound pessimistic!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Paavn]

waterdrop got it covered there, but if you want to see how "well" your cycle is progressing you should keep a log, it'll help you keep track of changes, just record what the water looks like, pH, ammonia levels, nitrite levels, (later on nitrate)

 

[dcarmor927]

were you asking how you make your own filter pad or cartridge? i was going to answer how to do that in a brief version but i wasnt sure if you wanted to do that.
what kind of filter do you have on your 55 gallon? im just curious cause if its like the one you have for your 10 gallon i could help you out with making your own filter cartridge that you wouldnt need to replace until it starts to break down (im did that for the tank im currently cycling. although i still have the original filter with the carbon and what not in it, i'll take it out and replace it with a bio sponge)

I wasnt asking how to do this but i will take the advice!! the pad the filter came with has the carbon sealed in it...I have 2 tetra tech filters on my 55 gallon...idk what model they are one is rated for 60 gallons the other for 40 gallons...

Hi there shoe armor

My initials are DC too haha

This might be a little off topic but I see you've got good direct help from Paavn and OM47, so you're in good hands.

When thinking about filters and seeding and bacteria I like to try and get my mind into the time-frame of the bacterial world if possible. Most of us now live in a world of computers and cell/mobile-phones, microwave ovens, fast jeeps and perhaps really fast snowboard jumps, lol. Bacteria have been a bit slow on the uptake of these modern conveniences and tend to still be a little more in touch with the slower aspects of the natural world if you get my drift (is drift a snowboard term, I'm clueless, lol.)

Sorry, anyway, even though some bacteria can divide and multiply very fast, the 2 beneficial species that we care about for our filters are relatively slower than many others. When bacteria grow, they have to go through a "lag phase" prior to their "growth phase" and during this lag phase lots of things have to happen: They have to find a niche of space and a good surface to stick to and other species of bacteria are competing for this. The have to begin to put out stuff outside the cell wall to help form a sticky slime to help build a "biofilm." This biofilm is not random but has shape and things like micro-water-channels. Each time there is disturbance (big water changes, sponge or other media movements etc.) then some of these "lag-phase" activities will have to start over again. The often take a day or two and then in the growth phase the biofilm production can get ramped up and go faster.

By "seeding" a filter, you are hopefully saving time by getting the "right" species of bacteria in position to attach and start building, but building up mature biofilms still takes weeks and seeing various "snapshots" of the progress via our crude little substance tests really usually only shows us stuff in terms of 2 days, 3 days, time slots like that!

Hope this helps in your thinking, don't mean it to sound pessimistic!

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for all the info!! it does make alot of sense...i took a bio technology class and we would grow plates of bacteria over night, i guess i was just used to that growth speed, then again, my water isn't as hot so i shouldnt expect them to grow that fast...

This morning, well afternoon, i just woke up lol (its 1 pm here) i checked the ammonia again and i think its down to 2 ppm...the colors can be hard to distinguish sometimes but i want to be optimistic lol...Thanks again for the replies!!

Edit: nitrite up to .25/.5 ppm so something is happening

 

[dcarmor927]

just checked water again,

ammonia- 0 ppm
nitrite- 1 ppm
nitrate 20 ppm

I added some more ammonia to bring it back up to 5 ppm just a minute ago...

One question: my tank pH is at 8.4 with the wood in it...my tap pH is at 8...i thought that the wood would bring the pH down...what else could be causing the pH to shoot up?

 

[Paavn]

you dont need to worry, its going up because of the ammonia you put in. my tap water is about 7.4 and my tank is at about 7.8 - 8

 

[dcarmor927]

ok thanks!!...i thought thats what it was but i wasnt 100%...thanks again!

 

[waterdrop]

Although you do want to be sure you don't have any shells or decorations or a strange substrate that might further raise your pH. pH=8.4 is right at the top of the optimal range for growning the bacteria you want, you really don't want it to go much higher.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[dcarmor927]

Although you do want to be sure you don't have any shells or decorations or a strange substrate that might further raise your pH. pH=8.4 is right at the top of the optimal range for growning the bacteria you want, you really don't want it to go much higher.

~~waterdrop~~

Thanks for that...well the filter has completed cycling, and the pH has dropped to a more appropriate 7.8...

 

[Paavn]

Thanks for that...well the filter has completed cycling, and the pH has dropped to a more appropriate 7.8...

you're ammonia and nitrite drop to 0 in 12 hrs already?