Redoing substrate with live plants in mind and need suggestions

[Snagrio]

I have a 125 gallon I'm in the process of overhauling for the purpose of converting into a planted setup. There's still fish in it (big cichlids) that will be rehomed so I'm still very much in the "blueprint" stages, therefore for now I'm asking around for brainstorming ideas.

The current substrate is a very coarse white gravel that I want to change out entirely. First idea I've gotten so far is black diamond blasting sand (looks nice and I can get giant bags of it for cheap at Tractor Supply) but I know it's completely inert and will do nothing to facilitate plant growth, so my thought is a bottom layer of a more nutrient-rich substrate for the plants to grow in with the top layer of BDBS, but what would be a good choice for that?

As for what plants in particular I'll even put in, still researching that. But some that I have in mind would be Amazon swords, Vallisneria, Moneywort, Cryptocoryne, micro swords, and non-substrates like Java fern and Anubias.

 

[Essjay]

The plants you list will be fine in an inert substrate. The heavy root feeders (swords, crypts, possibly the others) will benefit from root tabs, while the non-substrate plants will need a liquid fertiliser.
Seachem root tabs have been recommended as they don't pollute the water column unlike some other brands (we have a member who used some cheap root tabs and they caused a nitrite spike!) and Seachem Flourish Comprehensive Supplement (liquid fert) has also been recommended.

 

[Gabriel20]

Hi, I’m new to planted tanks and fish keeping. I use fluval shrimp and plant stratum. It has done wonders for my shrimp compared to when I was just using eco complete. My plants are doing fantastic. However I do use root tabs and also dose liquid fertilizer to ensure my plants are getting everything they need. I would recommend the fluval shrimp and plant stratum to anyone from my own success and it’s also a bit cheaper than some aqua soils.

 

[Snagrio]

How do root tabs work? Is it like terrestrial trees where you bury the tab in the substrate near the roots? And how often is it recommended that they be replenished?

 

[Gabriel20]

How do root tabs work? Is it like terrestrial trees where you bury the tab in the substrate near the roots? And how often is it recommended that they be replenished?

You simply insert the tab into the substrate. I’m sure different brands have different recommendations on how far apart and how often to renew. I use seachem root tabs and they recommend inserting one every 4 to 6 inches apart, and renewing every 3 to 4 months.

 

[Gabriel20]

Also keep in mind that if you have a thick patch of non heavy root feeding plants, such as hornwort which doesn’t typically grow roots and can just float in your tank, using root tabs in that area is a waste as the plants won’t use them. Liquid fertilizers added directly to the water column are more beneficial for such plants.

 

[Snagrio]

What are some quality liquid fertilizers that would be recommended then? Since I'd imagine some run the risk of spiking like some of the lower quality root tabs as @essjay cautioned about.

 

[Gabriel20]

There are a lot of good brands out there. All I use at the moment is flourish and flourish excel and they’re doing wonders for my plants. Flourish contains all the micro and macro nutrients plants need and excel is liquid carbon which is good if you don’t want to run a co2 injection system to provide your plants with carbon. I’d recommend these products to anyone. I don’t think anyone could necessarily go wrong with using flourish. Flourish and many other fertilizer brands also have bottles of individual nutrients if your plants are in need of specific amounts such as potassium and iron, but that’s far above my experience. As far as being a beginner, using an all around fertilizer like flourish has made growing my plants much easier.

 

[Gabriel20]

And keep in mind if you have invertebrates such as shrimp or snails, some fertilizers will be toxic for them because they contain copper. So if you choose to keep them be sure your fertilizer is safe for them. Some brands even have fertilizers that they label as “shrimp safe” or “for shrimp.” Flourish does contain copper, but is labeled on the back as safe for invertebrates. So I assume it doesn’t contain amounts that would be toxic for them. I’ve also had no issue with it.

 

[Grimreaper89]

I have a 125 gallon I'm in the process of overhauling for the purpose of converting into a planted setup. There's still fish in it (big cichlids) that will be rehomed so I'm still very much in the "blueprint" stages, therefore for now I'm asking around for brainstorming ideas.

The current substrate is a very coarse white gravel that I want to change out entirely. First idea I've gotten so far is black diamond blasting sand (looks nice and I can get giant bags of it for cheap at Tractor Supply) but I know it's completely inert and will do nothing to facilitate plant growth, so my thought is a bottom layer of a more nutrient-rich substrate for the plants to grow in with the top layer of BDBS, but what would be a good choice for that?

As for what plants in particular I'll even put in, still researching that. But some that I have in mind would be Amazon swords, Vallisneria, Moneywort, Cryptocoryne, micro swords, and non-substrates like Java fern and Anubias.

Hi have had many live planted tanks over the years and have been through most of the options from starting out cheap to going the hole hog.
The best results i have ever had was using larva rock as a base substitute with a fine mud lick substitute then my decorative gravel or sand on top.

Would highly looking into a C02 system even if this is a basic setup but you will probably end up upgrading withing 6 months to a full CO2 kit even thow the vost is high.

And always always soak your plants and if need be treat to make shore there are no hidden friends in the roots.

 

[Essjay]

I have a lot of plants grown attached to decor and I use Seachem Flourish Comprehensive Supplement.

I won't use things like Seachem Flourish Excel - most of these 'liquid CO2' products contain glutareldehyde. This is also used, amongst other things, for sterilising surgical equipment and in sterilising fluid. Even a small overdose can kill plants so there is no way I am putting this stuff anywhere near my fish

 

[Gabriel20]

I have a lot of plants grown attached to decor and I use Seachem Flourish Comprehensive Supplement.

I won't use things like Seachem Flourish Excel - most of these 'liquid CO2' products contain glutareldehyde. This is also used, amongst other things, for sterilising surgical equipment and in sterilising fluid. Even a small overdose can kill plants so there is no way I am putting this stuff anywhere near my fish

I was not aware of this I’m glad you brought this up. I have read incidents where people overdosed their tanks with it and their plants melted and died. But I’m very careful with my dosing these fish are my babies lol. I did read one mans thread where he did an experiment on his tank with overdosing. He started out with a very minimal dosage and gradually increased the dosing over the course of a few months until he was dosing 3 times the recommended dosage per week. His point was plants need to be acclimated to such changes just as fish do. However, the main focal point of his experiment was geared towards his plants and whether they would melt away at any point while gradually increasing the dosage. Not once did he ever mention how or if the dosage ever affected his fish in any way.

 

[Gabriel20]

I was not aware of this I’m glad you brought this up. I have read incidents where people overdosed their tanks with it and their plants melted and died. But I’m very careful with my dosing these fish are my babies lol. I did read one mans thread where he did an experiment on his tank with overdosing. He started out with a very minimal dosage and gradually increased the dosing over the course of a few months until he was dosing 3 times the recommended dosage per week. His point was plants need to be acclimated to such changes just as fish do. However, the main focal point of his experiment was geared towards his plants and whether they would melt away at any point while gradually increasing the dosage. Not once did he ever mention how or if the dosage ever affected his fish in any way.

And to me it makes me wonder, wouldn’t dosing such massive amounts of fertilizer and nutrients increase your waters hardness? With shrimp being so sensitive to water hardness such a case would be catastrophic to my tank and my own emotional health lol

 

[Snagrio]

The only potential invertebrates would be apple/mystery snails. Have had some before but due to the fish I've had since then (clown loaches, but I don't plan to keep them at this point) keeping any has been impossible. Don't have any experience with shrimp.

 

[Essjay]

And to me it makes me wonder, wouldn’t dosing such massive amounts of fertilizer and nutrients increase your waters hardness?

Hardness is a measure of divalent metal ions. In rivers, lakes etc, this means mainly calcium with some magnesium and trace amounts of others. Most fertilisers do contain divalent metal ions but in such tiny amounts compared to the amount of calcium already in even soft water that there will be negligible effect on hardness.