Random black ram deaths

[Kolykaf]

I understand.

I would like to apologize - I interpreted you double-quoting me without any additional information as something negative in nature.

Please accept my apologies.

Where are you located? I’m wondering if someone has finally started producing en mass.

No worries. I didn’t realize that I had double quoted. It seems that every time I reply to a post, the original post is duplicated. Maybe I’m doing something wrong…I’m in northern New Jersey- just outside NYC. I actually plan on visiting a shop in Queens tomorrow. I’ve seen them advertised there often. I’ll ask where they source them.

 

[CRS]

Hello! Welcome to the hobby! I'm going to do my best to explain here:

1. Rams are known for "just dying".
2. Poor genetic makeup does weaken these fish.

1. Ram Cichlids are known for "just dying" and while it appears this way, it is much more complex than that. To put it into perspective - how many other animals can you think of that "just die" without any external stimuli? I personally can't think of any.

What is true, is that Ram Cichlids are very sensitive to incompatible water quality. Rams require warm temperatures (82-86 F), soft acidic water (low kH and gH, pH 7.0 or below), 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and as close to 0 as you can get with nitrates + frequent water changes. Some Black Ram (or Dark Knight) Ram breeders recommend doing 50% weekly or more. I have found great success doing 20-30% once a week.

If you can provide all of these pieces, you should have no issues.

If you do, it brings me to point #2 - genetics.

2. Genetics.

Dark Knight rams were developed in 2012 by a breeder in South Africa. Since then, a truly black strain (not a regular German with some dark characteristics) can be hard to find and if you do, it is probably a relative of only a few known breeding lines. To get the black color the original German Blue Ram was cultivated into the Gold Ram Cichlid and from them the Black Ram was developed. The sheer amount of inbreeding to get those beautiful colors has made this fish more likely to get sick etc. if their required parameters are not met.

Tried to make that short and sweet.

Can you provide me with:
Tank size
stocking?


EDITED: I saw that you had posted more information. 26C of 78F is too cool for rams. Unlikely that this alone killed them, but you'd need it to be 29C.

Thanks, my girlfriend did some googling and came across a few people saying that rams were just dying
i have the API master kit and only test for ph, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia, would it be worth while testing other parameters? i have seen a few people on here talk about other parameters which i don't really know anything about i assume its all water hardness.

The tank is (5ft) 520L, i have many shrimp, 5 adult guppies + fry, 7 cardinal tetras, 6 glowlight tetras, 5 kuhli loaches, 2 small plecks and one red phantom tetra which i got for free i've been meaning to buy another 5 or 6 but haven't been able to due to catching covid.

or if this is a new tank, maybe the cycle is too young to keep rams?

I've had fish in the tank for around 3 months now, other than a bit of hair algae i've not really had many issues.

Even though some Rams may be weaker in genetics, the breeders have successfully kept many of them until adults size.
So, in my opinion, if you keep them right, they can thrive in your tank without any problem.

Firstly, may I know how big is your tank?
You should have at least a 10 gallons tank(preferably bigger) for the water to be more stable.
And don't overfeed them if your tank filter isn't stable yet especially when they are new.

Secondly, did you observe any symptoms of fish scratching and breathing fast?
From my experience with Rams, many of them are infected with gill & skin flukes.

Some are also infected with internal worms due to feeding with live worms that are infected.
Did they have sunken bellies or white stringy poo?

I had kept many Rams in the past and the only reason that they died are due to diseases.

Lastly, did they fight?

The one thing i noticed about the rams is they're shy when i comes to feeding, i watched them eat but they didn't eat much.

I didn't notice any fighting they were peaceful, didn't notice anything unusual about them to be honest.

 

[Essjay]

Strictly speaking, parameters are GH (hardness), KH (carbonate hardness), pH and temperature.
Water conditions are ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.


You know your conditions and the parameters pH and temperature.
GH and KH can usually be found on your water provider's website unless you are on well water. Water providers will use the term general hardness or total hardness for GH, and they use the term alkalinity for KH. You need numbers rather than vague words, and the units of measurement as there are several they could use. Or you could take a sample of your water to an LFS and ask them to test for GH and KH - make sure they give you numbers and the unit of measurement.

 

[kribensis12]

Thanks, my girlfriend did some googling and came across a few people saying that rams were just dying
i have the API master kit and only test for ph, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia, would it be worth while testing other parameters? i have seen a few people on here talk about other parameters which i don't really know anything about i assume its all water hardness.

The tank is (5ft) 520L, i have many shrimp, 5 adult guppies + fry, 7 cardinal tetras, 6 glowlight tetras, 5 kuhli loaches, 2 small plecks and one red phantom tetra which i got for free i've been meaning to buy another 5 or 6 but haven't been able to due to catching covid.



I've had fish in the tank for around 3 months now, other than a bit of hair algae i've not really had many issues.



The one thing i noticed about the rams is they're shy when i comes to feeding, i watched them eat but they didn't eat much.

I didn't notice any fighting they were peaceful, didn't notice anything unusual about them to be honest.

Rams are voracious eaters so if they are shy during feeding, that's a classic sign of illness.

Sounds to me like they had a parasite which means that whomever supplied the rams to the store likely did not care for them very well. Rams seem to be more susceptible to parasites and flukes --> many who buy rams from an unknown source treat them for both conditions right off the bat.


Water hardness is very important when it comes to Rams - it should be very soft water and if it's not, it can kill them over time. I do not think you had them near long enough for that to occur.

I would encourage you to try again - but source elsewhere.

 

[Lajos_Detari]

The one thing i noticed about the rams is they're shy when i comes to feeding, i watched them eat but they didn't eat much.

I didn't notice any fighting they were peaceful, didn't notice anything unusual about them to be honest.

Actually all healthy fish are greedy for food.
As Kribensis mentioned probably the Rams are sick.
Also, take note that Rams are picky eaters. They won't eat food that is big or hard.

So far, I find that my Rams would eat Dr Bassleer Biofish Food Regular M size pellets which is about 0.5-0.8mm.
They wouldnt eat food that is bigger or they would spit out after eating.

Whenever you buy fish, you have to observe them to ensure no signs of disease.
The fish can be infected in the fish stores or sometimes they were already sick when they came from the fish farm.

You can search googles for many tips on how to check the fish conditions before buying them.
Also, it's best to quarantine them before putting them into your main tank.
If they bring diseases into your main tank, you will have hard time to medicate the main tank.

Lastly, as some had mentioned, make sure your GH is low for soft water.
Check your tap water company website for the water analysis report to find out the GH.

Let me know if you need more advice.

 

[CRS]

Thanks for your responses.
I'm sure my water is soft but i will have a look, it might be easier to buy a test kit and i could test on a regular basis!

 

[Essjay]

Unless you do something to alter that hardness, or the water provider switches between sources of different hardness, GH should not change so it only needs testing once.