Questions About Ich And A Bent Guppy ...

[bushbrother]

Hi everyone, hope you can help me. Firstly my water stats are all normal and my fish stock is as per my signature.

About 2 weeks ago one of the 2 guppys I have (they were tiny fry that came with my original fish by mistake) suddenly started to get thinner and a bit more elongated than the other, I thought that this was maybe because it was a male (I later found this not to be the case as both fish have gravid spots). It still seemed fine but has now turned a pale colour and its tail is now pointing downwards, like it has a humped back.

It is eating fine, but when it is not feeding time it spends its time near the bottom or at the surface, away from the other fish. It used to always swim with the other guppy. From what I see it is not having swimming dificulties, and other than being thin and bent, it is ok.

Then about 5 days ago I noticed one of my rainbows with about 10 white spots on it (salt size), looking at google images I realised it was Ich and so checked the other fish, one other rainbow had about 3 spots.

I have treated with Interpet Anti-Whitespot and have just done the second dose. All the rainbows now seem clear, and were not even phased by it. But now the little bent guppy has a couple of spots. I will continue to treat for another week.

So my questions are, how did I get whitespot, as I have not introduced anything for months, is it always in the water? And what has happened to my guppy, was she the cause of the whitespot? (i.e. she got sick and weak and then got whitespot, which spread?). Or did the guppy get injured/bullied? I noticed she has a small chunk missing of her tail fin.

I will try and post a picture of it later, but if you can imagine its head being level with the water surface, then its tail curves down about 45 degrees ... any help appreciated, and sorry for the long post!

 

[WILDER]

Have you added any new plants to the tank.
Do you have any other tanks.

Being skinny with a bent spine can be fish tb, to internal parasites.
If the fry wasn't born that way it sounds like a desease.
He could of been born with internal parasites as the mother can pass them onto there young when inside her.

Signs of internal parasites are.
Long stringy white poo, clear mucas poo, red poo.
Fish will look skinny or bloated.
Bent spine.
Sunken in belly.
Fish will sometimes swim on it's side.
Enlarged anus, red inflamed anus.

 

[bushbrother]

Hi Wilder,

Thanks for the reply, in answer to your questions ...

Have you added any new plants to the tank. - Thinking about it I did add 2 new plants about 1 month ago
Do you have any other tanks. - No

As far as your description for internal parasites, I can see the following being what I can see

Fish will look skinny or bloated. - she is skinny, definately skinnier than he used to be, and the other guppy
Bent spine. - This she definately has, it was not like this from birth, the 2 guppies used to be the same. Like twins!
Sunken in belly. - Hard to tell, but a possibility. I will post a picture as soon as I am home.

I have not noted any sores or funny poo, last time I saw it was fairly dark brown, and solid. I have some Interpet anti-internal bacteria treatment, but I cannot use this while dosing for whitespot right?

 

[WILDER]

Ok.
How often do you feed the fish.
What do you feed the fish.

When a fish has internal parasites the poo will be long white and stringy, clear mucas poo, or red poo.
Worms prutruding from the anus.

It's pointing towards fish tb, internal parasites.
Also a vitamin deficiency can cause bent spine.

 

[bushbrother]

How often do you feed the fish? - Once a day, in the evening.
What do you feed the fish? - Flake food and Slow sinking granules. They get frozen mosquito larve once a week, and shelled peas every 1-2 weeks. I also drop boiled carrot or cucumber slices in once a month for a treat.

I tried to find a picture on google images of something like it, but all the pictures of fish TB seem to bend horizontally, this is more vertical bending. I will go on paint and draw the rough shape, that will have to do till I get home.

If it is TB, I am guessing my whole tank is at risk? What should I do?

EDIT: Added an image to show how she looks, the original picture is how the other looks right now, they are still young ...

 

[WILDER]

If the fish looks in a bad way I would end its misery.

Just need to find out if its fish tb or internal parasites.
But if the poo normal brown colour it's not sounding like internal parasites.

Get you a link to fish tb. So you know the symtoms.

Piscine Tuberculosis



Symptoms:

Because of the symptoms associated with this disease, it is often referred to as Wasting Disease. An infected fish may show a loss of appetite, emaciation (sunken belly), fading of colors, eroding fins, erratic swimming, scale loss or protrusion, "pop-eye" or eye loss, skin inflammation, ulcerous skin wounds or open lesions, gill deformities, spinal curvature, and Dropsy.

Symptoms may occur singly or in various combinations. Symptoms may also vary from species to species and from one individual fish to another. Not all symptoms need be present. Healthy fish may carry the illness for some time without being affected, and then become ill when stress or poor water conditions lower their resistance. The disease may run a lingering course, killing the fish slowly over time, or strike in epidemic proportions quickly wiping out an entire aquarium population.

Diagnoses of Piscine Tuberculosis is difficult, as all of the diseases symptoms may appear in other illnesses. Piscine TB can only be verified upon autopsy.



Cause:

Mycobacterium bacteria. Piscine Tuberculosis is highly infectious and can be easily transferred. Gravel can harbor this bacteria causing the entire aquarium to become infected. The disease may strike in epidemic proporations, killing an entire population of fish in record time with little to no symptoms. However, it can also remain latent for some time, progressing slowly, silently causing internal organ damage to the fish.

This illness is not always fatal to the fish. The bacteria may become encapsulated to form small nodules and as long as good environmental conditions are maintained there is no danger. However, if the fish is weakened by unsuitable water conditions or other diseases the nodules can burst. The infection then becomes acute and can kill the infected fish as well as infect others.



Treatment:

Infected fish must be isolated quickly because the disease is highly contagious (see below). Treat with a combination of sulphafurazone (0.2mg/g fish), doxycycline (0.005 mg/g fish) and minocycline (0.005 mg/g fish) administered intramuscularly. It is also recommended to feed any sick fish isoniazid. It may take up to 2 months for fish to completely heal. Kanacyn also claims to be helpful in treating Piscine Tuberculosis.


Caution:

Piscine Tuberculosis is caused by a species of bacteria belonging to the genus Mycobacterium, which is also the causative agent of Tuberculosis in humans. While the bacteria that causes this disease in fish prefers cooler temperatures than most bacteria that infect humans it is still possible for the illness to be passed on to humans. Such an infection in humans usually shows in the form of an infected nodule in the skin, although there is a chance of a more serious internal infection. If you suspect your fish has this disease, observe the strictest of hygiene to prevent the spread of this serious disease to humans.

 

[bushbrother]

OK, I looked at other links for TB, and it does sound like what is happening

What about my other fish? Will they also be infected?

 

[WILDER]

You will need to issolate all sick fish showing symtoms.

Water changes on main tank. If the fish have a strong immune system they should fight it off.
Soak there food also in garlic juice to boost there immune system.

Wear gloves if you have cuts and wounds.

Once the spine bends there no cure.
For fish tb kanacyn, tetracycline, minocycline. Vitamin b supplement.

A link for you on treating fish tb.

http/www.fishyfarmacy.com/articles/mycobacteriosis.html

 

[bushbrother]

Thanks for your help, none of the other fish are showing any signs, just this guy. I will upload a photo of it ASAP just to confirm. I don't want to "get rid" of it if its not TB.

How would I go about "ending" it?

 

[WILDER]

Once a fish get really skinny with a bent spine there to far gone to save.
Poor thing.

A jug of cold water and add ice cubes till the water freezing cold.
If no ice cubes add the jug of water to the freezer, till a thin sheet of ice forms on top.

Place the sick fish in the iced water.
It won't take long.
Check gills are no longer moving.
Leave the fish in the ice water for half an hour to make sure it's definately passed away.

It's hard to say fish tb without a fish showing most of the symtoms.
Only way to surely know is bag the dead fish up and place in freezer, Get the fish tested at the vets for fish tb.

 

[bushbrother]

OK, I will post a picture just to be safe ... poor guy

 

[WILDER]

Ok.

 

[bushbrother]

Attached are the pictures, in the bowl it does not seem so bad, she is swimming loads, and using all fins ... what do you think?

 

[WILDER]

Poor thing.
The fish isn't right.
If you think it's not suffering let it live it's life out.
But I think I would buy an issolation tank for it.

 

[bushbrother]

Poor thing.
The fish isn't right.
If you think it's not suffering let it live it's life out.
But I think I would buy an issolation tank for it.

Do you think it could be TB? It does not look as bent as pictures i see on the web, would TB do that as fast as 2 weeks? I will separate her in a bucket and do lots of water changes and treat for internal bacteria with interpet, i really dont want to kill it if its not TB ...