Questions about Ammonia

[Becca]

I posted this in another thread about ammonia, but it's a bit lengthy in it's own and I think it might have been overlooked. If someone could look through this and give me some answers, I'd be very greatful:

First, a little background:
I have a 29 Gal tank using a 40g Whisper Filter, 13 Fish (1 Brown Knife, 1 Danio, 6 assorted Tetras, 1 Algea Eater, 1 Molly and 3 Fantails.)

I setup my tank back in September 2003 after having kept 2 Danios and an Algea Eater in first a 3-gal and then a 5-gal tank for a year. I followed exactly what my LFS told me to do, but just recently thought to start searching around on the net to see what other people do. Ooooh, the wrong things I've done and the fish I've lost because of my danged LFS. *sigh*

My Problem is This:
After chatting with some fellow aquarium pals, I decided to do my weekly ammonia test. (I have yet to buy a Nitrite kit, I'll make that a top priority...) Anyway, my ammonia level has consistently been between 0.25 and 0.50 since September. Most of the fish I have in my tank now *seem* to be healthy, but I don't want to risk losing them. Are the ammonia levels I have in my tank dangerously high, or are they acceptable? From reading up on tank maint., I'm gathering my levels should be at 0...any suggestions what I should do (other than the obvious small water changes) to help lower my ammonia levels?

In answer to any questions that may arrise:
1) Yes, I was over feeding my fish for a while, until about 3-4 weeks ago. Ammonia levels haven't dropped since I've pulled back on the food. I was feeding them 2-3 times a day, now I'm feeding them once every 2-3 days, per my LFS (haven't lost any fish due to starvation, but if I'm still not feeding them enough, let me know!!)

2) I was without any bottom feeders until about a week and a half ago. My previous algea eater passed on - thanks to some bad advice from my LFS (long story made short, I had a container to hold some "Aquarium Salts" at the bottom, he crawled in, the salt dissolved and container floated to the top. The poor guy suffocated.) Anyway, yes my tank went without any fishies picking up the dirt and crap on the bottom for a few weeks.

 

[heresmike]

Hi Becca.

Does your water change routine include vacuuming the gravel to remove the waste at the bottom of the tank?

Have you tested your tap water for ammo? Hopefully there's no ammonia in it, but....

Are you overcleaning the filter, or changing all the filter media at one time? (this would be a bad thing because it would destroy the colony of beneficial bacteria)

 

[Becca]

You have questions, and I have answers!! D

Question:
Does your water change routine include vacuuming the gravel to remove the waste at the bottom of the tank?

Answer:
No, it doesn't. I previously visited a LPS and asked about water changes and gravel vaccums. I was told not to change the water (too much good bacteria is removed, and it messes with the eco system, it's ok to have a little ammonia, per the LPS ditz.) When I went to buy more filters, she handed me the bags and also said that I should change the filter one month and vaccum the next. I'm assuming this can be lumped into yet more bad advice from the likes of my LPS? (Corrections and advice are extremely welcome and much appreciated...)

Question:
Have you tested your tap water for ammo? Hopefully there's no ammonia in it, but....

Answer:
Yes, I tested my tap water (just finished) and it's ammonia free.

Question:
Are you overcleaning the filter, or changing all the filter media at one time? (this would be a bad thing because it would destroy the colony of beneficial bacteria)

Answer:
Not quite sure about this one. When I service the filter, all I change is the bio bag and the carbon that goes in it. I leave the sponge in - though I was rinsing it out in tap water (didn't know any better) - last change was about 3 weeks ago. Any tips about how often I should service the filter and what I should *really* do would be greatly appreciated.

I think I found my problem, lol. I'm doing a few things wrong, just need to be steered in the right direction.

 

[heresmike]

Well, in a cycled tank, you shouldn't have any ammonia, so that's a wrong answer from the lfs.

Also, you should do partial water changes weekly, maybe 20%, and vacuum a portion of the gravel to remove the waste. You'll have to invest in a gravel vac if you don't have one (they're pretty cheap!)

It sounds like you're doing the right thing with your filter by changing the bio-bag but not the sponge. I guess one thing I'd do differently is to rinse it in the tank water that you siphon out instead of tap water. This might be killing some of the bacteria.

I hope this all helps you Becca! Good Luck!!

 

[Becca]

Absolutely helps alot!! Thanks much. (And wouldn't ya know it, the question about the water change was in one of the pinned posts.)

Well, anyway, what better time to get started on a water change routine then now, so here I go!

 

[Becca]

Wow...

Ok, water change and vacuum done. I even rinsed the sponge in the old tank water. Conditioned some new tap water and added it back into to the tank. (I pulled out about 4 gallons from a 29 tank). OH MY GOSH, the crap that was stuck IN the sponge was amazing. I didn't make sure I got it ALL out, just shook it around in the old tank water a couple of times and quite a bit fell free.

I'll check the ammonia levels tomorrow to see how things worked out. Chances are there was too much debris for my system to break down to nitrites and nitrates. I had a wealth of fish poopy! I guess it never really occured to me to vacuum the sys since the LPS told me not to and my water was clear. I'll make sure to do this once a week or so. Thanks!!

 

[MadCow]

Some say to vaccum 1/2 of your gravel with each water change. Alternating each time you do. This I believe is to keep from removing too much of your beneficial bacteria that lives in the gravel. I would guess if you have a good biological filter that this wouldn't be as great of a concern though. And as heresmike said make sure you rinse your filter material in tankwater and not tapwater. Because if your tapwater has any chlorine in it, you can say adios to that wonderful hard-earned bacteria colony.

 

[Becca]

UGH! This ammonia stuff is gonna be the death of me, or my fish. ;-)

First, I went to leave for work today and noticed one of my new Fantail Goldfish was swimming - happily - but looked a little plump and had some weird long, clear string or liquid that was just following him around - attached. I shrugged it off - especially since I was running late for work.

I got home and the poor guy's fins were caught in the intake valve for the filter. I carefully removed him from the big tank and put him in the seclusion tank - I lost him about an hour later.

So, while the fishy was in the seclusion tank, I checked my ammonia levels and they're EXACLTY the same as they were last night before I did my water change.

Now I've got a couple more questions:
1) Could the sick fish have something to do with my steady ammonia levels?
2) Obviously I need to do another water change, but should I vacuum it as well? (I *lightly* vacuumed it last night, and pulled out about 4 gallons.)

Thanks in advance for tips, help, or just flames at me for being stupid.

 

[heresmike]

Hi Becca. Seein' as how you weren't vacuuming regularly, I'd do a little more vacuuming, and another 4 gallon change. I don't think the sick fish could be adding to the ammo problem. If there were dead fish in the tank, I'd say that could be contributing to the problem.

*edit* and make sure you're dechlorinating the water!!

 

[Becca]

Thanks again Mike, I'll definitely do that - in fact, I might as well do it now. I'll give the whole gravel a good once over.

Just so as I know, how often should I be vacuuming? With regular water changes?

 

[tstenback]

Perhaps you have cleaned the tank too well and removed most of the benficial bacteria. How much of the gravel did you clean? This could cause the ammonia spike and start a cycle of ammonia , nitrite nitrate all over again. Without the other readings it is hard to give you solid advice but based on this thread so far and the good advice you have received i think that it is possible that you got just a little over enthusiastic with the cleaning. Keep us posted and if you can get those other readings. You can often get the lfs or another friend to check them for you. Good luck

 

[heresmike]

Thanks again Mike, I'll definitely do that - in fact, I might as well do it now. I'll give the whole gravel a good once over.

Just so as I know, how often should I be vacuuming? With regular water changes?

Yes, you should vacuum a portion (maybe a third) of the gravel each time you do a water change. I vac and do weekly water changes of about 20%.

Also wanted to make sure you saw my edit that you should dechloriante the water. Forgive me if that's too basic!!

 

[Becca]

tstenback:
No, I think Ididn't do enough. I only lightly did maybe a 1/4th of the gravel towards the front. And I was using a 1-gal bucket, so I had to keep stopping and restarting it, by the tiem I got a enough suction going to vacuum, I could do one spot of gravel, then had to stop.

mike:
Not too basic, but yes, I was declorinating the water first. I used a conditioner, per the instructions on the bottle, and even tested ot make sure my tap water did *not* have ammonia Pre-Conditioner and Post-Conditioner.

I just did another water change, and *sigh* thanks to my stupidity - I forgot to unplug my heater while I was emptying water. It came on and cracked. So, now I get to run to the store and get a new heater. Yay? I really have to be more careful with the heater, oh well - you live and you learn.

 

[StevieJack]

Oh how many times have i done that.

I now have a submergible heater that can lay horizontal near the bottom of the tank.

For those of us who forget to unplug or turn off the heater prior to a water change it is not a bad idea. 8)

Stevie

 

[heresmike]

Good advice from StevieJack... submersible heaters are the way to go!

And hey Becca... you should think about picking up a 5 gallon bucket for your water changes. It'll make things much easier for you!!