Question About A Barb Set-Up

[Magic8]

Good day,
      after having Africans in A 45 for a number of years I took A break for A few.I just recently set up A 65 gallon 3' version.Running this tank is an Aquatop cf-400uv.Anyway I decided to set-up A  Barb tank I immediately fell in love with Black Ruby's and was able to get my hands on ,some so I will be putting 9 of them in my tank.this brings me to my question when said and done how many barbs can I comfortably fit into this tank my next step is to add A shoal of cory's I'm thinking about 6 and A RTS I am going to go probably with A albino version As I think it would look nice with my substrate which is Black Sand.now here comes the confusing part my next batch of fish after my ruby's/Corys & RTS has me asking questions.I would like to go with about 8  either 5-banded/pentazona(same fish)or Snakeskin/Rhombo(same fish) which would put me at 24 would this be my max number for this 65.I would love to add about 8 albino tigers to this mix if possible.this is where my question comes can all these fish be housed in my tank.if not I am thinking of not doing the 5-banded  or snakeskin and doing a mix of 10-12 of albino & green tigers.this last addition of the 5-banded/snakeskin and or tigers has me scratching my head because I really am not sure how many barbs I can put into this tank without stressing out my fish.I will not be adding all this fish at one time obviously I need the tank to catch up with ech batch added.After adding the cory's & RTS I will probably add on A aquaclear 50 or 70 to help with the filtration so I don't think filtration will be an issue with next batch it will be more of A question of how many Barbs can I comfortably fit in A 65 gallon so I Am hoping someone could help me out with my last stocking option.
 
could I go with about 8 snakeskins or pentazona's   and lets say 8 albino tigers (would this be too many fish)
                                            
                                                       if so could I mix and match
 
5 albino tigers with 5 green tigers.
 
Thank-you

 

[Akasha72]

wow, that's one aggressive tank your planning. The main thing that jumps out is that the cories are going to be eaten alive. Cories are sedate peaceful fish and can not live with aggressive, fin nipping prone fish such as barbs. Please, for the sake of the welfare of the cories, forget about adding them to this tank.
 
All barbs are well known for their fin nipping behaviour. My Dad has kept fish for around 50 years and he likes barbs but he tried to mix black ruby barbs with gold barbs and the rubies virtually ate the golds alive. The golds had no dorsal fins at all - just a hole in their backs where the dorsal used to be. He now has just two female black rubies left and one lives behind the filter as every time it tries to venture out the other female attacks it. I've heard that this aggression can be kept in check by keeping them in large shoals and this would be my recommendation. 
 
The red tailed shark is another aggressive fish, particularily as they age. They also need a very large tank as they are fast swimmers and grow very big. I'm confused on how big this tank is but if it is smaller than 5ft it's unlikely to be able to house the shark long term

 

[Magic8]

from everyone I have talked to black ruby's are some of the more docile barbs as well as the snakeskin & 5-banded I've doneplenty of research on temperment of these fish the only ones that are in question are the albino tigers the other three species are more on the peaceful side of the barb species I do agree barbs are barbs they are all fin-nippers but from many sources I have read that other than the albino's the other three are of the more peaceful  side.I've also had conversations with many people who have cory's mixed in with barbs with no issues the RTS may be an issue not quite sure but as far as mixing the barbs and cory's from what I've been told they inhabit different parts of the tank and as long as I have a nice size shoal of barbs it won't be an issue especially with the more docile ruby's.I don't know what happened with your dad for his ruby's to be aggresive but from everything I've read and heard ruby's are one of the more peaceful barbs I was really just looking to see how many barbs plus cory's could comfortably fit in a 3'  65 gallon without being stressed with overcrowding I know africans like to be very crowded it helps with the aggression not so sure about barbs!

 

[Byron]

The question of how many barbs (in general) will fit in this or that sized tank is more complicated than it may sound at first.  While we can make some generalities about "barbs," there is still the individual normal behaviours/traits of distinct species, and then the issue that individuals within a species do not always follow the norm.
 
First in general, barbs are very active fish, swimming everywhere and quite rapidly.  So in any tank, there will be fewer barbs in total than there might be with less active fish such as rasboras.  Mixing different species of barbs must take this into account, as each species needs space for itself and being shoaling fish that are quite social there needs to be a good group of the species.
 
It is true that the Black Ruby Barb (Pethia nigrofasciata) is one of the more peaceful species in terms of aggressive tendencies but the numbers, tank size, and other species in the tank will all play into this so things can change.  A group of 9 is a good minimum; try to get a mix of male/female--they are easy to tell apart once the males begin to colour up--and the exciting social interactions of the males is a true joy to observe.  I have had this species for more than three years now.
 
At this point I will suggest that you forget the Red Tail Shark, albino form notwithstanding.  This species is not what one can call peaceful, and individual fish can be downright nasty.  They frequently take a real dislike to vertically barred fish...the female Black Ruby Barbs would fall into this description.  Aside from this, the shark should have more space (length of tank), and I would not combine one with other substrate fish like corys or loaches.  As you can see, this shark is a very limiting fish, best forgotten.
 
Back to the barbs.  You mention Pentazona Barb (Desmopuntius pentazona), but I personally would not mix this species with the Black Ruby.  For one thing, the colour/pattern is much the same as the female BR, and for another, this is a less active barb that can become quite skittish when surrounded by very active fish that are especially so at feeding.  A 65g tank at 3 feet in length does not provide all that much room.  Fine for the BR, but tankmates will need to be carefully selected.
 
The Tiger Barb is known for its aggressive tendencies, and this applies to the man-made colour varieities as well as the original.  A group of 10-12 is advisable, but here again it has patterning nearly identical to the female BR and I would not combine them.
 
The snakeskin barb (Desmopuntius rhomboocellatus) is a beauty, but again one that might be more timid in the presence of the hyperactive BR.  I would suggest a longer tank would be more suitable, with some reservation.
 
So that leaves the BR as centrepiece fish.  The corys (increase the group to 8+ if they are the lone substrate level fish) should be OK, but another substrate fish that will work here is one of the smaller loaches.  I have Botia kubotai in with my BR, and there is also the Botia striata, or perhaps one of the so-called dwarf species.  Shoaling fish all of these, so five minimum up to six or seven of the species named.  Loaches need lots of chunks of wood (authentic aquascaping for the barbs too) so they can find places to rest.  Wood with tunnels and crevices is ideal, such as the Malaysian Driftwood.
 
Other upper fish are certainly possible, but barbs may not be the best for these.  Some of the active but peaceful characins (tetras) work well.
 
Byron.

 

[Magic8]

Byron,
     Thank-you so much for that explanation I have asked this question on A couple of different forums trying to get a logical answer and you are the only one who laid it out for me very bluntly but I really appreciate it.the way you explained it puts everything into perspective very,very well and I really understand your thoughts and opinions though it is only your opinion your logic behind it makes a whole lot of sense and the more I think about it well it makes even more sense the more I think about it.Though I have not picked up the ruby's yet my LFS is holding them till Saturday they are my favorite Barb and fell in love with them after seeing them at another store about A month or so ago So I have no issue having them as my CP fish.I did give some thought to having an all tiger tank with different variants of tigers but I am not quite sure how Cory's would fair in such A tank  and this could still be an option but the coloring of the black ruby's I absolutley love.So back to an active companion fish to go along with the Ruby's you are suggesting Tetras?Are they going to have play and chase games much like Barbs.That is what I am looking for in A tank not necessarily aggresive but I am looking for A colorful very active tank I had that with my africans for many years but they kind of outgrew the tank they were in then I broke down my tank when I bought my house a few years ago and now that my daughter is three I thought it was A good time to set up A tank again not only for her but for me as well.So as much as I would love to go with A secondary Barb I am going think alot about your advice.Would you put another Barb in with the Ruby's there are three others that I did think A little bit about and that would be the odessa's,cherry & gold barbs.you seem to know A great deal about Barbs so I am asking your honest opinion on this matter I am definetley going to add A shoal of Cory's its the third & if Able to fourth(only if possible) species that I need to think long and hard about.I would rather gather all my facts now before adding fish then having an issue.I am really new to Barbs I've always had africans so any questions about africans I could probably come up with A logic answer not so much with Barbs.Besides tetras any other active fish that you could think of that might go good with the Ruby's.
 
Byron thank-you so much for the info you sent my way I was a bit uninformed about Barbs and their requirements and how much room they actually needed unfortunatley I am kind of stuck with A 3 foot tank as I need to go caddy corner in my house there is no way to go longer wish I could but just cannot its funny A 55 gallon tank is smaller than A 65 but in A way its bigger because of the length you can put so many more fish in A 55 than A 65 because of that extra foot even though it holds 10 gallons less.I'm kind of stuck with what I have as I don't have the room lengthwise for that extra foot so I need to make it work.
 
Thanks again for all the info you gave me alot to think about and could have saved me from possibly making A big mistake if you never responded to this post!

 

[Byron]

There is nothing wrong with the 3-foot 65 gallon, that is a decent sized tank.  Even in a 4-foot 55g, I would be very careful with more than one barb.  I'm not saying this can't be done, obviously it can, but here I wouldn't recommend it.
 
The Black Ruby Barb is a real beauty, I thoroughly enjoy sitting in front of the tank and observing their activity.  To see two males in coal black with ruby heads spinning around so fast they are a blur is quite amazing; sometimes a third will attempt to join in.
 
Before thinking of other upper level fish, I would pin down the substrate.  Corys will be fine, or the loaches.  Either of these, plus the barbs, is what you would then work around.
 
 I have a group of Lemon Tetras in with mine, and this has worked surprising well.  The Lemons are about as active, but the two species never interact.  The Lemons also interact among themselves.  Both species are prolific spawners.  I also have a group of beckford pencilfish, Nannostomus beckfordi.  One would not normally think pencilfish suitable with barbs, but this pencil is rather fesity and I ended up moving them into this tank when they refused to leave alone some of the sedate fish in the other tank.  This combo has been very effective.  All these fish are quite active, but none have ever gone after another species.
 
Byron.

 

[Magic8]

Thanks again  as it sits right now I plan on picking my ruby's up on Saturday letting my tank and fish adjust then adding A shoal of cory's at this point I will try and decide on my mid to high tier fish to go with the ruby's I took A look at those pencils very nice looking fish they don't seem to get too big.you mentioned yours are a bit feisty I only read a little bit but from what I read they seem to be a little on the shy side.yours seem to do well with your mix it sounds like you have a nice mix of colors with the ruby's,lemons & pencils what size tank do you have this group in?thanks again for the info Byron.

 

[Byron]

I have had pencilfish throughout my time in the hobby (20+ years now) and to date have kept ten species.  Most are quiet fish, but every time I have had Nannostomus beckfordi, which I believe is three different times now, they have always been feisty.  They dislike other fish in their area, which is the upper level, and I have had them take a real dislike to hatchetfish, otos, and each other though the latter is natural to the species and nothing to worry about.  But they can nip the other fish aggressively.  They have been fine in the 90g with the barbs, lemons and loaches, for just over two years now.  I've also moved the group of Nannostomus trifasciatus in with these last summer, and that has worked well; these fish took a real dislike to the hatchetfish in the tank they were intended for when I acquired them, shredding the fins of some of the hatchets within hours before I got them out.
 
Byron.

 

[Magic8]

Thank-you for sharing and more so sharing your opinions on my tank plan it helps to have someone with alot of experience sharing their opinions It is very helpfull and I will thoroughly research when it is time to add more fish to go with the ruby's and cory's when the time comes.and ideas on A nice looking cory to compliment the ruby's I did start this post mentioning my substrate is black sand I think leopard & panda cory's are nice looking have not researched them in depth yet!this is still a couple of weeks away first things first I need to get my ruby's get them acclimated to the tank and have my filter adjust to the load of the fish!don't want to get too ahead of myself.I just love to do alot of research and know A general direction I want to go in.I kind of knew about a month ago that Black ruby's was the first fish I wanted to start with and I got kind of lucky that just when my tank was going to be ready for fish the LFS I've been dealing with got a batch of them in!

 

[Lateral Line]

This stuck out to me...
 
>>> All barbs are well known for their fin nipping behaviour.
 
... that is SO untrue. I would say that the vast majority of barb species are perfectly harmless. A few, a very few, exceptions do not make a rule. The ONLY species I kept that was a problem for me was tetrazona, and that was because when I got them, (1960's), fish were sold as pairs and the male harrased the female to death and then started chasing everything else in the tank. Bad memories have stopped me keeping them since, but a decent sized group in a large enough tank are probably fine.
 
My last big tank in England had a real mixture in it, mainly ones and twos, rescued fish, Africans and Asians, some larger species, binotatus, callipterus, evereti etc. but also pentazona, gelius, hulstaerti and others. No trouble at all.