Pygmy Chameleon

[CAC]

Hi, Im looking into getting some pygmy chams, and was wondering what people would keep them in, because Im not too keen on those exo-terra open air ones, because of humidity levels...So Im thinking of going wood and glass. What kind of lenght and height would you think would be good, cos Im thinking about 24" high, and maybe 24" long, but what do you think?
Also, heating wise, people say to keep them at room temps, other than a tube (id be using a sutably long 2.0 UV bulb, cos Im sure it cant do too much harm, as long as theres some shade. How many do you think would be a good number for the cage size you specify?
Im thinking of feeding wise, smallest sized crickets you can get, from livefoods.co.uk and ill get a fruit fly culture too.
Mist lightly twice a day, do I need a water bowl?

Anything else ive missed?

Thanks alot, Mike

 

[oddball_lover]

I wouldn't go with all wood and glass, it's quite important that chameleons have very good ventilation.

The mesh top exo-terras seem to be favoured because it offers good ventilation. All you have to do is make sure they stay well misted

 

[CAC]

Ahh, good point, but you cant get them in very big sizes, and from what ive read, they dont like 4 walls of glass and need some that arent see-through.

Thanks, Mike

 

[grahamsokel]

First off Pygmy chameleons are tiny and i mean Tiny they would be lost in a viv that size and really struggle to find food .Everyone i know with them including myself keep them in the playpal tanks with no heating.
Aso for the exo terras the smallest size exos would be big enough for a trio of them.
I have all of my bigger chameleons (Panthers and Yemens)in the large exos 60x45x60 till they outgrow them and i know a lot of breeders keep their females in the 60x45x60 exos all the time and the solution to the all glass is you put aquarium backing on the 2 sides.
Wooden vivs will Rot over time due to the Humidity and you will find the size of the crickets that pygmys eat will get through the gap between the glass of a normal wooden viv

Edited to add Depending on age they can quite happily eat size 2 brown crickets and to add this link http/www.chameleonnews.com/brevcare.html
also be aware a lot of the ones in shops are wild Caught

This is my pygmys

 

[CAC]

Well the exo terra glass tanks come in 12x12x12 all the way up to 24x18x24h", and all sizes in between...Which would be best for a trio or for four of them, for life? Also, on a fish tank I dont mind background, but on this id prefer not to, however exo terra also do matching fake rock backgrounds for their glass tanks, so id probably get a couple of them, for the back wall, and maybe a side.
Would I really not need any heating? I wouldnt mind getting a heat mat and a mat stat and putting it underneath, or on the back behind the back ground...
I know of one place that does pygmys (online) and theyre CB (I think), but do you know of any other places, as id be interested in seeing differant prices etc.

Thanks for all the help

Mike

 

[grahamsokel]

you really dont need to go any bigger than the next size up than the small one but a Trio would be just as happy in the small one.
All the exo's come supplied with a fake backing

I dont know anyone in Cheshire with Pygmys but i know the reptile room near Blackpool hatched some out recently,2 of my friends both breed them but they are both up this way and i have eggs at the moment.There is another bloke has them i think his site is something like
www.thelivingjungle.co.uk.
There is also a reptile show going to be on at Blackpool later and its going to be open to the public so you could probably get them there cheaper than from a shop.

 

[CAC]

Is the living jungle the one with a list on a chameleons link at the top, and they have like 4 differant pygmy species?
Well after the 12x12x12 theres a 12x12x18h and an 18x18x18, so id probably get the 18" square one if I could get it, and keep either 3 or 4 in there. Allthough I can get the 12x12x18h one for quite alot less...
I kinda hope to breed them abit really in the end, so I may need to upgrade to accomodate others later on, if I cant sell them all...
I was going to also provide loads of foliage in the form of live plants from this website: http/www.dartfrog.co.uk/plants.html
Just a couple of ferns and fiscus'..Im thinking of having a low "canopy" of small twigs, sticks etc but Im not sure on which woods are non-toxic, and I was going to dry out some large leaves (are oak leaves ok?) and just have them in one corner, to see if they get used much...

Thanks alot, Mike

EDIT: What do you think would be a good substrate, bearing in mind id like to be able to keep some live plants in it...(or in pots buried under the substrate)

 

[grahamsokel]

The 12x12x18 is quite a high viv for pygmys i would say the 12x12x12 would be more than enough for a trio.You will need to put coco fiber substrate down to a depth of about 3" as they lay there eggs in it.
You may find you will be over run with them if you get the care and incubaton right as they go mad.You will also have to remove the eggs to incubate them as i know that crickets will didg down and eat holes in any eggs they find

 

[CAC]

Yeah, thats if I can find them first
I have two small (about 7" long) containers, that are made from quite thick plastic (used to house vaccinations for my dog, until they run out and you have to go get a new one...), which I can put some holes in, and keep on the vivarium floor, for incubation, unless they would need more heat.
Ok, so the 12" cube it is then, what do you think would be suitable sticks/twigs to use then, as ive heard that cherry trees ar ethe best, but I dont know where to go and look for those...Any ideas?
I see loads of coco substrates, but none really say coco fiber...Take a look on here, cos this will be where I get it from: http/www.livefoods.co.uk/default.php?cPath=34
Do you think I will need anything else for heating, other than a 2.0 UV bulb? (they dont do these bulbs in anything less than 15"!!!, know where I can get 12" ones?) EDIT: Ive found a 12" bulb, and a reflector, the bulb is the arcadia natural sunlight bulb, which has a lower UV output than their other bulb, the D3 one. Do you think id need a reflector on it above the tank?

Thanks alot, Mike

 

[grahamsokel]

You could just incubate them in empty cricket tubs when you get to that point.

I buy the large ficus for my yemens and Panthers so i just clip lengths off them and stick them in the substrate and then change them as and when the leaves drop.

The coco fiber is actually the same as the blocks of eco earth that Livefoods sell but if you go to places like poundland or wilkinsons they sometimes have it in for 2 blocks for a pound,I stock pile it when ours have it in as i go through loads of the stuff.
TBH i cant help with the UV as i dont use any uv or heating with my pygmys neither do either of my 2 friends who breed them

 

[tmack]

Hi. I wandered in here from the fish sections. Are the pygmies in the picture adults? If that's the case they are indeed really tiny!

 

[grahamsokel]

Hi. I wandered in here from the fish sections. Are the pygmies in the picture adults? If that's the case they are indeed really tiny!

In that Picture they where sub adults they are now just under 2" and adult size

 

[CAC]

Ill get the reflector too, so that theres not loads of light pouring into my room.
What Im going to do is get one of those min/max digital termometer/hydrometers, so that I can see what the minimum night temps are, and if theyre too low, I can put a small heat mat underneath (theres a spaced there) on a temperature stat (I can get them for about £2 more than the mat stats, and they have 200w more than the mat stats, so theyre worth the extra £2 in my oppinion) and have the sensor low down in the tank, and have the temperature set for about 73 degrees, and then drop it for night times. Infact, for about £30 I might just do that anyway, or am I being over-cautious?
Should the substrate be damp, or wet, or just a little moist, from the mistings?

Thanks alot, Mike

EDIT: BTW, have you seen any breeding signs, or egg laying from yours yet graham??

 

[grahamsokel]

Before you get a temperature Stat check that they dont have a minimum wattage,I am not sure if the newer ones have or not but i know the older models will not work with only a small heat mat plugged in.
The substrate should be damp.You have to soak that substrate as it comes in a dry brick shape so once it is soaked get hold of handfulls and squeeze any excess water out and thats about what you need it at.You then do a fine misting twice a day.
with a heatmat and the damp substrate you wont have any problems with the humidity at all but you will from tiome to time have to give the substrate a good spray to stop it drying out.
I have 4 eggs up to now so hopefully i will hatch my first babies out

 

[CAC]

I dont think Im going to get a temp thermostat or heat mat, just because of the over-complication factor...
Apparently it can drop to the high 50's at night, so Im pretty sure it wont go too low...
I think that the light will give off enough heat in the daytime too, so I should be ok, but I will get that min/max thermostat just to see the temps.

Thanks alot, Mike

EDIT: Found some small heat-mats for sale, one is 20x20cm, so will cover quite alot of the bottom, the other is a 6x11" which too will cover quite alot of the ground. What do you think, should I get one and put it on a temp thermostat?