Protein Skimming And Water Changes

[sacramonel]

All,

I've been reading "Reef Secrets" by Alf Jacob Nilsen and Svein A. Fossa. They made two points which go against the thinking of most marine aquarists. They are as follows -

a. Page 37 states that "a water change of 5-10% a year is sufficient in a balanced reef aquarium.
b. Page 30 in a caption states that "It is entirely possible to overskim a reef aquarium".

Now what I've understood as common practice, 10% weekly waterchanges are necessary and the bigger the skimmer the better. I know I may be opening a can of worms with this thread, but I think it can create a thought provoking debate.

Your thoughts?

 

[bambam]

my thoughts on this subject;
truthfully i dont use a skimmer anymore maybe turn it on for an hour once every three days, i find the coral get bigger and look heathier when its not on, and i do a water change once a month and even then my water parameters are fine. I completely agree with you on both points, by experience

 

[kkyyllee]

for nano's it best to go skimmerless and weekly water changes, but bigger tanks u would want to use a skimmer and add supplements instead of water changes

 

[sacramonel]

for nano's it best to go skimmerless and weekly water changes, but bigger tanks u would want to use a skimmer and add supplements instead of water changes

I also put this thread on RC and so far have two comments that were definitely negative. I guess it's hard for aquarists to change their thinking.

 

[sacramonel]

Bambam what type of coral do you have in your tank?

I believe that following Nilsen and Fossa's suggestion would work only with LPS and Soft Corals. I read that these corals prefer nutrient filled waters as apposed to SPS corals who live predominately in Nutrient poor water. The overskimming of a tank would be great for SPS because they can not have any nutrients (phospates and nitrates), where soft corals (and sponges, etc) prefer nutrient dense waters.

 

[kkyyllee]

RC isnt very nice...

 

[sacramonel]

RC isnt very nice...

Not nice at all.

 

[Musho3210]

for nano's it best to go skimmerless and weekly water changes, but bigger tanks u would want to use a skimmer and add supplements instead of water changes

you are right, but bias, the truth is there is no right or wrong in skimming vs no skimming in nanos, they both have pros and cons, and depending on experiance level and all this other stuff going on in the tank, there is no way you can say its bad for nanos, since every nano is different.

Nothing beats a water change, and skimming is just cheaper than changing like 15 gallons a week out of a 100 gallon tank, thats why some people say water changes are better in nanos, there not, there better in all tanks, water changes are cheaper in nanos, thats why many people dont get skimmers for them.

Nothing can beat a good water change with a high quality salt mix.

If you use a small skimmer on a nano, and a big skimmer on a big tank, whats the difference? Your skimming the same amount. Like lets say you have a tunze nano skimmer in your 20 gallon, and in your 60 gallon you have 3 tunze nano skimmer. Your skimming the same amount either way (this is where the 60 gallon is just the 20 gallon multiplied by 3 so the nutrient level is multiplied by 3)

Water changes are better than skimming hands down, and water changes are cheaper in a nano. Thats why people dont always skim on nanos.

Just skim and do water changes, water changes replenish the nutrients anyway. And so many people get wound up on how skimming may be bad for corals blah blah blah but they seem to have forgotten about the fishes health. But i wouldnt know how skimming are good for fishes, so i wont go on about that.

And about the original post, water changes dont only take things out, the put things in, so i dont see where that person who wrote that article was going, did he mention that without water changes you had to replenish the good stuff in other ways? Or did he leave that out?

 

[andywg]

It is believed possible to overskim, and many people are starting to advocate having a skimmer on a timer.

As to water changes, the whole reason SW keepers worry about LR and macroalgae and skimmers and DSB is to save on salt in water changes. If you get the balance right you can get by on just 1 water change per year, but you will have to add the essential elements and nutrients to the water.

Some people have gone 4 years sans water change with algae turf scrubbers and that is in heavily stocked tanks.

Fish keeping has no hard and fast rules. There is no true "best" way, except possibly nature, but even that can be imnporved upon in some ares (See my post on electricity and corals for example).

 

[sacramonel]

It is believed possible to overskim, and many people are starting to advocate having a skimmer on a timer.

As to water changes, the whole reason SW keepers worry about LR and macroalgae and skimmers and DSB is to save on salt in water changes. If you get the balance right you can get by on just 1 water change per year, but you will have to add the essential elements and nutrients to the water.

Some people have gone 4 years sans water change with algae turf scrubbers and that is in heavily stocked tanks.

Fish keeping has no hard and fast rules. There is no true "best" way, except possibly nature, but even that can be imnporved upon in some ares (See my post on electricity and corals for example).

I definitely agree with you here. There are no hard and fast rules because every tank is different. Sure there are guidelines, but you must determine what is best for your aquarium I do 20% water changes ever 6-8 weeks, and it works very well for me. I also do not use R/O water ( I know Blasphemous) but my tap water does not have any adverse affects. I am also not keeping difficult SPS's either. And, now that I learned about Chemipure, not an ounce of algae anywhere in the tank.

So what I'm saying is it all depends on Your tank. Experiment. Determine what is right for you, and your aquarium inhabitants.

 

[Musho3210]

And i dont think the once change per year is good for beginners. Im beginning, i dont want to mess up, so im doing 20-25% weekly, with skimming, with live rock, and with RO/DI water. It might be possible in big tanks with experianced owners, i wouldnt know, but 15% a year is like nothing, why do any at all? How is that 15% going to help when the tank survived a year without water changes?

 

[SkiFletch]

All,

I've been reading "Reef Secrets" by Alf Jacob Nilsen and Svein A. Fossa. They made two points which go against the thinking of most marine aquarists. They are as follows -

a. Page 37 states that "a water change of 5-10% a year is sufficient in a balanced reef aquarium.
b. Page 30 in a caption states that "It is entirely possible to overskim a reef aquarium".

Now what I've understood as common practice, 10% weekly waterchanges are necessary and the bigger the skimmer the better. I know I may be opening a can of worms with this thread, but I think it can create a thought provoking debate.

Your thoughts?

If you've got years and years of experience and knowledge under your belt, then I'd agree with both of those statements. Thing is, the average reef aquarist probably only has 2-3 years experience. There are TONS of newbies out there, and only a few old salites who really know their stuff. If you really know what you're doing and construct a great refugium, use properly sized skimmers, and dose properly then you can waterchange infrequently. But a VAST majority of us don't have the equipment or knowhow to do so, hence waterchanges are the way to go.

As for overskimming, it's an interesting debate with no realworld science to back it up. There's some vague theories out there, but nothing more than subjective experience to really back it up. It should be noted that overskimming usually refers to people runnig MASSIVE skimmers in relation to the size of the tank... Again something few aquarists can afford, hence I rarely caution people about overskimming.

 

[Musho3210]

another thing that people say are if you have an oversized skimmer for your bio-load, it wont skim, hence you cant overskim

I heard that somewhere, dont hurt the messenger boy.