Problems With Water Quality

[Queen Bee]

I am having problems getting the nitrates down. Usually do a water change once a month. Been fighting nitrates though for last month. Did a water change last week of 25%, tested water next day nitrates lowered a bit, did another 25% water change, nitrates lower a bit. This week I am up to dangerous nitrate levels. I am doing something wrong. Help me to fix this problem please. Tank was fine for the last 6 months, but now all is gone crazy.

Here's all the info I have on the tank

Tank is 29 gallon.
Live rock, skimmer, and filter.
Stock: 2 Clown, 3 green chromis (small), cleaner shrimp, pistol shrimp, watchman goby, clown goby, mexican turbo snail, hermit crab (small)and purple fire goby (who is not swimming anymore, just lying at bottom for last 3 weeks)and 3 feather dusters.
Only 1 coral left alive. Red algae ate the other coral. (Vacuumed it up since finding out it was dangerous)
Noticed bubble algae. Removed 1 and noticed another one. Again, thought it was cool, but today found out it is not good for the tank. Will remove the other one today.

ph 8
kh 8
Calicum 380
Nitrate 180 (Did 25-30% waterchange yesterday)
Amonia 0
Nitrite 1
Phosphate 0
Density 1.031 (Will add fresh water to lower this)

I only feed the fish once a day. 1 cube of frozen brine shrimp.

I checked out the skimmer, several small feather dusters in the bottom container part. These must have hitched a ride on the live rock. Could they be causing high spikes in nitrates.

Read about some additives for lowering nitrates. I've always avoided these in my fresh water, are they necessary for salt tanks? I would rather fix the problem than simply adding chemicals.

What are my issues, and what can I do to create a nice environment for the fish?

 

[HappyGeorge]

I think you may have a problem getting those nitrates down in a short time frame, as the rock will be full of nitrates and even after a good water change the levels will just fly back up again, not sure what you can do to solve that except maybe soaking a piece at a time in clean salt water and then putting it back in, one of the more experienced saltys may have a better suggestion. It does look like pretty heavy fish stocking for a 29 Gallon to me, but also seems like a lot of food. My tank only has 2 clowns, a chalk goby and an algae blenny at the moment but I only feed once tiny bit of flake ( about an half inch by half inch square) and about 1/8th of a frozen mytis cube daily, I don't know that this is right feeding level but I have kept Malawis for a while and they suffer bloat if over fed so I am in the habit of being miserly with food. Spreading out feeds will probably help even if its just one late afternoon and then one late evening as I would think that with that whole cube in one go a lot is being left uneaten and rotting away somewhere.

 

[-Nemo-]

The feather dusters actually help, they wouldn't have anything to do with this problem.

What really concerns me, other than the high nitRATes, is the 1.0ppm nitRITes. That is dangerous for everything in there, as well as the really high density. I also agree that you are quite stocked for a 29G and in being so, monthly water changes may not be enough to keep the nitRATes down as you are finding out. I would suggest doing decent water changes (about 10G) every couple days to get the nitRATes and nitRITes down as well as the density. You do not want to lower the density more than 0.002 everyday otherwise you risk shocking the fish.

Make sure your skimmer is working correctly (no clogged air tube, pump working, water level correct) and do the water changes to get those levels lower. Make sure there's no dead zones where food is gathering and you can turkey bast your rocks (squirt water on them) to get the junk up and siphon it out. I would also give the sand a good siphoning as well.

 

[woody88]

I agree with above. You shouldn't be getting any reading for nitrite and ammonia.

Is the rock getting plenty of flow?

Are you running a nitrate remover?

If not then add some. If you are then change it.

Your tank does sound overstocked so you need to make sure your skimmer is doing it's job and not leeching crap back into the system.

Are you running LR rubble as filter media as this is usually classed as a must

 

[Queen Bee]

I am not using nitrate remover. Will get some. LR in filter. Live Rock rubble? Never heard of this, but will try anything.

Didn't think I was over stocked. Green chromis and clown goby are all only 1 inch each. Total inches of fish are 13 maybe plus the shrimp. Guess I won't buy any more fish.

Doing water change now, will test again tmro. I've got to get the nitrates and nitrites as well as the density down. Would adding more live rock help the nitrite problem?

Glad feather dusters are cause of problem. Love them and the way they look in the tank.

Thanks for all advice.

 

[woody88]

I am not using nitrate remover. Will get some. LR in filter. Live Rock rubble? Never heard of this, but will try anything.

Didn't think I was over stocked. Green chromis and clown goby are all only 1 inch each. Total inches of fish are 13 maybe plus the shrimp. Guess I won't buy any more fish.

Doing water change now, will test again tmro. I've got to get the nitrates and nitrites as well as the density down. Would adding more live rock help the nitrite problem?

Glad feather dusters are cause of problem. Love them and the way they look in the tank.

Thanks for all advice.

LR rubble - broken off pieces from larger LR.
The reason we use rubble is to allow better flow between the pieces than a larger piece on it's own.

On your first post you said fresh water to bring salinity down.
Are you referring to tap water or RO water as tap water should never be used! Could be cause of problems as tap water is full of nasties.
Bring your salinity down slowly over a few days.

LR is you biological filter so it should remove any trace of nitrite. But what could be causing that nitrite reading?

Try some nitrate remover it helps keep my trates down in my tank. Just remember to change it regularly or when nitrates start to creep up.

 

[Morri]

I would not use LR rubble it will cause more issues than resolve in the long run unless you have very good flow over it

I would agree with Nemo though just do more regular water changes weekly at least 10% closer to 25%

Nitrates at that level after a 25% water change seems very high I would get it tested by your LFS as well just to make sure the test kit is right

How much flow have you got in the tank ?

I would add some Purigen in if things do not improve I use it in my tanks even though nitrates are low

 

[Yuma]

I'd offer a few ideas as I have had these problems myself.

1.) Double check your test kits. In other words, have an LFS test your water too, just to make sure they are accurate. Or alternatively you can purchase another brand of just the nitRATe test kit for verification. If you are using the API test kits....make sure you are shaking the testing fluids as described in the directions and reading them at the appropriate time. Amazing what can happen if you don't, trust me, I've been there.

2.) TEST YOUR RO WATER and the newly mixed water BEFORE you put it in the tank. I mistakenly went on for about 5 weeks thinking surely the RO water I'm getting from LFS (the same thing they use in there tanks) must be good. WRONG. The purchased RO water I was getting had TDS in the 200s and NitRATes in the 20-30 range. Bought myself an RO/DI and don't have that problem any more.

3.) +1 on the concern with the NitITEs and checking the skimmer idea from Nemo.

4.) +1 on the turkey baster on the rockwork etc. If you have good flow throughout your rockwork the detritus and leftover food, etc. would work it's way out or mostly out and into your skimmer. If NOT, then it's left in your rockwork to decay and produce ammonia, which leads to NitRITEs and eventually NitRATes. If you don't have good flow over your rocks, suggest repositioning or adding a powerhead(s) and using the turkey baster to blow any extra off the rocks to get them into the water column and ultimately your skimmer. I'd get the turkey baster in there every night for a couple weeks to get everything out of those rocks that you can.

5.) In my opinion, a whole cube of brine every day might be a bit much on the feeding regiment. As an example, I have two tanks that I run with 4 fish plus inverts in one and one fish in the other and it takes me 3 or 4 days to go through a whole cube of frozen. I would consider taking feeding down to every other day to begin with until you have the nitrates under control. It won't hurt the fish, especially on a short term basis. When/if you go back to feeding every day, I would do so in smaller quantities. The other side of this is that if you are feeding every day you can feed in smaller quantities. That's just my opinion and others are welcome to disagree, but I think that's an awful lot for your inhabitants.

Finally. There are 2 primary ways to get NitRATes out of your system. Some sort of algae. Either the good (macro-algae) or the bad (cyano, hair, etc). and water changes. You should see consistent drops in your nitRATes if you continue to do your water changes. I think you should change at least weekly for the time being. More if you can, but I wouldn't do more than 25% at a time. As mentioned, be careful not to change that salinity too much too fast.

Be patient and diligent. It's certainly something you can get under control, but it's not something you can probably do overnight with a single water change.

Feel free to post questions as you have them!!

 

[Donya]

Nitrate 180

Whoa hold on. Is that 180ppm? What type of test kit are you using and have you taken a water sample someplace to confirm the readings? Have you tested the water going into the tank after WCs and for top-ups? Normally you'd be losing inverts like shrimp and snails under those conditions or at least seeing very ill-acting inverts. While animals can sometimes tolerate high nitrates if it builds up very slowly over a long period of time (although I have never heard of inverts tolerating 180ppm of it), prolongued exposure to detectable nitrite is usually be enough to cause invert deaths.

Would adding more live rock help the nitrite problem?

If it's cured, absolutely. Perhaps I missed it, but how much LR is in the tank currently? Sand bed?

Total inches of fish are 13 maybe plus the shrimp.

Fish-inches isn't a good measure of bioload. Whether the system will work is far more dependent on the diets of the animals, the body mass (a long snakey fish might be roughly the same as a short but boxy fish of the same weight), and the filtration present. Small marine systems also simply can't be stocked with fish biomass to the same degree as most small freshwater tanks. They'll often be stocked with lots of inverts instead, which can give a heavily stocked appearance.

 

[Queen Bee]

I am using the API liquid tests. And yes, the 180 nitrates is correct. Will get some nitrate reducer today.

RO water is what I am using for water changes. I buy it from lfs (some pre mix saltwater some freshwater.) Tested the saltwater and it reads a nitrate level of 5 or 10. Hard to tell, the colour on the test results card look identical.

I can put some LF rubble in the filter, then it gets lots of flow. I gave the rock a good clean with turkey baster and sifted the sand about.

Skimmer seems to be working. Getting lots of dark coloured bubbles in the collection cup.

Power head is directed at the middle of the LF. By the way my algae is moving about, good flow.

Maybe not enough LR. I had a picture posted when I first got the tank, was told to add some more LR. Maybe I didn't add enough.

Shrimp seem to be doing good. Cleaner shrimp molted the other day. Both cleaner shrimp and pistol shrimp very active. Snail is moving quite quickly around the tank.

 

[Donya]

I am using the API liquid tests. And yes, the 180 nitrates is correct.

Double-check the readings with a LFS before you spend lots of money on other things.* The API liquid nitrate test can go bad (probably contamination or exposure to bad temperature) and give crazy high nitrate readings out of nowhere. That happened to me more than once with those kits and most recently a year or so ago. Woke up one morning, tested my tanks and bam - off the chart readings in every established tank while just-mixed saltwater and just-treated fresh out of the tap showed zero. I never figured out what was causing the all or nothing behavior in the readings, but a new test kit showed <20ppm for my fw tanks and <10ppm for my sw tanks. The API nitrite kit seems more stable but double-check that too just in case. The API kits are generally long-lasting and reliable, enough so that I find them to be the best value for cost, but test kits can go bad.

*EDIT: unless you did that and it's what you meant by correct...in which case that would all have been rather useless!

Double edit: yarg! Somehow I missed Yuma's post. I'm doing a good job at being captain redundant today.

Tested the saltwater and it reads a nitrate level of 5 or 10.

That's not good, but not so horrible that I would expect 180ppm to result.

 

[Yuma]

RO water is what I am using for water changes. I buy it from lfs (some pre mix saltwater some freshwater.) Tested the saltwater and it reads a nitrate level of 5 or 10. Hard to tell, the colour on the test results card look identical.

I completely understand the hard to read colors on the lower readings. But at 180 PPM that's not the difference between 5 and 10, that's something much more than that. I agree with Donya though....I just can't imagine everything being alive and well with nitRATes that high....certainly not for any period of time and it sounds like this is an ongoing issue.

RO water with any nitrates would make me EXTREMELY suspicious....sounds like the lfs needs to change their filters.

First things first. Get your tank water double checked one way or another. Then if you get the same readings, you can proceed with some other plans of attack.


I've gone back and read through your threads and looked at your pictures and gonna ask a few more questions.

1.) Have you added any liverock from the first pictures you posted in your moved the tank thread? If not, you may be a bit short of liverock to offer enough biological filtration for what you have in the tank. That may also help to explain the niTRITes.

2.) You mention "filter". That makes me think of some sort of self-contained filter, i.e. filter floss. If this isn't cleaned/changed very regularly it can trap detritus and food and lead to increases in aforementioned things. You shouldn't need it if you have enough live rock and skimmer is functioning well (shouldn't being key word).

I also want to throw in a word of caution here. I personally will not put any "additive" in my tank that cannot be tested for. I think it is an extremely dangerous habit to get into(emphasis on MY personal opinion). There's too many variables about the individual system and how fast things are used up/degrade over time, etc. etc. First and foremost you need to do is fix what is causing the nitrates, not just bring them down for the short term (although a short term bring down from 180 is probably warranted in this case). You need to get to the bottom of what is causing this spike and I would wager a guess that it's in one of the things that have been discussed. If you don't, then it's just a matter of time until you have the same problem again. If it's not one of the things mentioned....maybe one of us can help you get to the bottom of the issue.

EDIT: My apologies..upon re-reading the initial post, you do mention wanting to get to the root of the cause rather than a quick fix.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE understand that I'm absolutely not trying to be critical of you or your husbandry. I am trying to help a fellow reefer out and I certainly hope that you are taking it that way.

 

[Queen Bee]

RO water is what I am using for water changes. I buy it from lfs (some pre mix saltwater some freshwater.) Tested the saltwater and it reads a nitrate level of 5 or 10. Hard to tell, the colour on the test results card look identical.

I completely understand the hard to read colors on the lower readings. But at 180 PPM that's not the difference between 5 and 10, that's something much more than that. I agree with Donya though....I just can't imagine everything being alive and well with nitRATes that high....certainly not for any period of time and it sounds like this is an ongoing issue.

RO water with any nitrates would make me EXTREMELY suspicious....sounds like the lfs needs to change their filters.

First things first. Get your tank water double checked one way or another. Then if you get the same readings, you can proceed with some other plans of attack.


I've gone back and read through your threads and looked at your pictures and gonna ask a few more questions.

1.) Have you added any liverock from the first pictures you posted in your moved the tank thread? If not, you may be a bit short of liverock to offer enough biological filtration for what you have in the tank. That may also help to explain the niTRITes.

2.) You mention "filter". That makes me think of some sort of self-contained filter, i.e. filter floss. If this isn't cleaned/changed very regularly it can trap detritus and food and lead to increases in aforementioned things. You shouldn't need it if you have enough live rock and skimmer is functioning well (shouldn't being key word).

I also want to throw in a word of caution here. I personally will not put any "additive" in my tank that cannot be tested for. I think it is an extremely dangerous habit to get into(emphasis on MY personal opinion). There's too many variables about the individual system and how fast things are used up/degrade over time, etc. etc. First and foremost you need to do is fix what is causing the nitrates, not just bring them down for the short term (although a short term bring down from 180 is probably warranted in this case). You need to get to the bottom of what is causing this spike and I would wager a guess that it's in one of the things that have been discussed. If you don't, then it's just a matter of time until you have the same problem again. If it's not one of the things mentioned....maybe one of us can help you get to the bottom of the issue.

EDIT: My apologies..upon re-reading the initial post, you do mention wanting to get to the root of the cause rather than a quick fix.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE understand that I'm absolutely not trying to be critical of you or your husbandry. I am trying to help a fellow reefer out and I certainly hope that you are taking it that way.

First, I would like to say... No worries. I did not find anything you said offensive. I am actually pleased that you found my original post about adopting the tank and took the time to review it!! I have actually signed off other boards (not fish related) because of bashing me. I come here for help and appreciate the way everyone on here is helpful without belittling me. Again, Thank you!!

Since adopting the tank, I was told to add more LR. I did so, but I can't seem to upload a recent pic. If you are interested, I can try e-mailing it to you. The original 2 damsels I adopted died within a few months. Some weird kind of mouth fungus and weird body discolouration. All other fish ect in the tank now are new additions. Only the 2 clowns are original to the adopted tank.

Looking at my original pic, I've got about double the amount of LR in the tank now. I added 7 lbs more of LR yesterday. Haven't used the nitrate remover yet. I was in a rush at LFS and when I got home, not pleased when reading the instructions for the product. They sold me Pura NitrateLock (not cheap). I don't have the time to regenerate the product every day. I need something easier that will not cause more problems for the tank. Looking into that now. Ideally, I would rather not use any chemicals at all.

Had water tested yesterday at LFS, my readings are sadly correct.

I do clean the filter when I do water changes. It came with the tank, so I just continued using it. Thought if it was working, why mess with the set up.

Tested tank water, Nitrites are now 0. Nitrates are at 80. Nitrates are still too high, especially considering how many water changes I've done these last few days. Other than the fire goby, everyone else in the tank appears healthy and active. Strange, but true.

Getting to the root of the problem, yes please. I do not like spending my lunch breaks doing water changes everyday. Would like to sit back and enjoy.

 

[Queen Bee]

Tank with the added LR. May add more.

 

[woody88]

Tank with the added LR. May add more.

Looks nice and clean!