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Prevent Ich or Attack Ich
- Thread starter faolteam
- Start date
No "medication" is really "safe" for fish, so they should only be used when it is absolutely necessary, and provided it is the safest treatment for the problem. Substances added to the tank water can enter the fish with the water that is constantly being taken in via osmosis, if the substance can diffuse across the cell membranes.
Ich is caused by stress; the parasite is obviously present (it is now believed to be in most of our tanks), but it is stress that weakens the fish's immune system allowing the parasite to take hold. This is why it is often encountered with new fish, they are severely stressed. Prevent stress and you will never see ich.
If ich does break out, raising the water temperature to 86F/30C will kill ich most times (a couple of resistant strains may not be killed off, but most will be). Increasing the temperature is far less stressful on the fish than any so-called medication for ich.
yea i had two guppy that was new, one though was quite swiming a lot, i noticed his mouth had a white shine like on it , but tonight there was a white mark on his pectoral fin , so ill take ur advice and raise up the temp just in case , how long does should i raise the temp for ?
I have neon tetras in this tank
I have neon tetras in this tank
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Two weeks at 86F/30C will in most cases kill ich. Keep a good surface disturbance as oxygen levels in warmer water are lower.
You are sure this is ich? Flashing is usually the first sign as the ich attack fish gills where they are invisible to us.
I would suggest that is not ich. If you can post a clear photo, some of our members whop are more experienced in such issues may be able to advise. Keep in mind though that it is always safer to not jump into this or that, unless it is reasonably certain the problem is "x".
Please post pics! If it's just one spot it could be a bacterial or fungal infection, in which case raising the temp won't help, and may stress the fish unnecessarily and cause the problem to get worse
A white mouth is more likely mouth fungus (Columnaris) or bruising to the mouth.
Post pictures asap.
Do a huge water change and gravel clean the substrate.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.
Add some salt, see directions below.
If there is no improvement after a couple of days of salt and it is Columnaris, you will probably need anti-biotics or some medication to treat Columnaris. But try salt first.
------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), sea salt or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.
If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.
Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.
The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.
After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.
If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.
Post pictures asap.
Do a huge water change and gravel clean the substrate.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it's added to the tank.
Add some salt, see directions below.
If there is no improvement after a couple of days of salt and it is Columnaris, you will probably need anti-biotics or some medication to treat Columnaris. But try salt first.
------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), sea salt or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.
If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.
Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.
The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.
After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.
If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.
I will respectfully disagree with raising the temperature in the case of Ich. It will kill most strains (not all) of the parasite, but it does so at what I consider a higher cost to the fish than the malachite green based meds do.
Research is showing that in killies, as an example, temperature ranges affect the proper digestion of food - their digestive enzymes are disrupted by too low or too high temperatures. If the fish is already under attack by a parasite that lives off its body fluids, as Ich does, do we really feel safe potentially depriving it of nutrients at the same time?
Malachite green is fierce stuff, for sure, and I can understand the fear of it affecting fish. It doesn't seem to though. I've kept fish for 55 years now (and am not a scientist) and have tried every technique against Ich. I have found fish treated with the heat method, like the salt method, to take longer to regain their vitality after the parasite's dead. Salt is slower then other medications, and I assume that it gives the parasite longer to feed on its unlucky host.
So to the original question, I always keep a bottle of malachite green and formalin (for Oodinium parasites that flare up every few years in my soft water) ready. I couldn't care less about the brand. I once went 11 years running a multi-tank fishroom without seeing Ich once, but I kept the meds fresh and when I did bring in some fish that were stricken, was ready. I find that if you have the appropriate medications and can use them quickly, Ich is not a problem. Give the parasite time to get established, and yikes.
I'm in the process of moving across a distance, in Canada, in winter, so you rest assured I have my Ich meds ready. One thought though - a wildlife photographer friend has shown me photos of tetras in the Amazon with Ich - a spot here and a spot there. I suspect it's an annoying little parasite in nature, but that it's the size of our tanks, and its ability to become really concentrated in a tiny body of water full of fish that makes it a fatal enemy of aquarium fish.
Research is showing that in killies, as an example, temperature ranges affect the proper digestion of food - their digestive enzymes are disrupted by too low or too high temperatures. If the fish is already under attack by a parasite that lives off its body fluids, as Ich does, do we really feel safe potentially depriving it of nutrients at the same time?
Malachite green is fierce stuff, for sure, and I can understand the fear of it affecting fish. It doesn't seem to though. I've kept fish for 55 years now (and am not a scientist) and have tried every technique against Ich. I have found fish treated with the heat method, like the salt method, to take longer to regain their vitality after the parasite's dead. Salt is slower then other medications, and I assume that it gives the parasite longer to feed on its unlucky host.
So to the original question, I always keep a bottle of malachite green and formalin (for Oodinium parasites that flare up every few years in my soft water) ready. I couldn't care less about the brand. I once went 11 years running a multi-tank fishroom without seeing Ich once, but I kept the meds fresh and when I did bring in some fish that were stricken, was ready. I find that if you have the appropriate medications and can use them quickly, Ich is not a problem. Give the parasite time to get established, and yikes.
I'm in the process of moving across a distance, in Canada, in winter, so you rest assured I have my Ich meds ready. One thought though - a wildlife photographer friend has shown me photos of tetras in the Amazon with Ich - a spot here and a spot there. I suspect it's an annoying little parasite in nature, but that it's the size of our tanks, and its ability to become really concentrated in a tiny body of water full of fish that makes it a fatal enemy of aquarium fish.
AbbeysDad
Fish Gatherer
Use caution with salt if you have living plants.
For treating ich with temperature of 86°F for 2 weeks, I found a simple solution. Instead of meds, have an extra heater on hand. I set the temperature by adjusting the heater in a bucket of water to achieve a consistent 86°F. If/when ich rears it's ugly head, you merely drop this heater in and plug it in. The water comes up to 86°F. When the treatment is over, you simply remove this 'special' heater and store appropriately. The tank temperature slowly comes down to normal temperature.
This method saves having to putz with the regular tank heater to increase then decrease setting for temperature (and potentially chasing yer tail to get the right setting).
This is one of those things that may be akin to being prepared for a power failure. If you're not prepared, it may spell disaster.
Edit Footnote: I'll just add that I've been a fishkeeper for many, many years (50+). I rarely if ever use any medications at all and frankly, never have needed to. Once you have balanced systems, routine maintenance, and are careful about new additions, there's no need to have meds on hand that you'll never use and will expire. (just my $.02)
Edit x2 - addendum. I did once purchase Hikari Ich X to treat an overstocked tank when a couple of fish showed signs of ich. It worked well I thought. The bottle remains nearly full and likely isn't any good anymore due to it's age.
For treating ich with temperature of 86°F for 2 weeks, I found a simple solution. Instead of meds, have an extra heater on hand. I set the temperature by adjusting the heater in a bucket of water to achieve a consistent 86°F. If/when ich rears it's ugly head, you merely drop this heater in and plug it in. The water comes up to 86°F. When the treatment is over, you simply remove this 'special' heater and store appropriately. The tank temperature slowly comes down to normal temperature.
This method saves having to putz with the regular tank heater to increase then decrease setting for temperature (and potentially chasing yer tail to get the right setting).
This is one of those things that may be akin to being prepared for a power failure. If you're not prepared, it may spell disaster.
Edit Footnote: I'll just add that I've been a fishkeeper for many, many years (50+). I rarely if ever use any medications at all and frankly, never have needed to. Once you have balanced systems, routine maintenance, and are careful about new additions, there's no need to have meds on hand that you'll never use and will expire. (just my $.02)
Edit x2 - addendum. I did once purchase Hikari Ich X to treat an overstocked tank when a couple of fish showed signs of ich. It worked well I thought. The bottle remains nearly full and likely isn't any good anymore due to it's age.
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The importance of temperature for the proper functioning of the entire physiology of a fish is certainly important. The use of any chemical/medication is more harmful to most if not all species we maintain. Characins for example have a very sensitive reaction to all additives, but all species can tolerate short-term temperature increases.
Re the ich in the wild, yes, and fish can deal with this. The cause of ich is stress; without stress the fish can handle it. And this takes us back to the "treatment"--increased temperature is far less stressful than adding any substance to the water that gets into the fish's bloodstream and internal organs.
Back before I had an air conditioner, the temperature in my tanks regularly rose to 90F for several days during heat waves. No fish ever died during these periods, nor for weeks and months after. There are only a very few species that will be seriously detrimentally affected by the increase in temperature.
Byron - I do lose rainforest fish in heat waves, when it gets up to 30 in summer, unless I really crank the oxygen levels getting into the water. Either I have AC, or I have losses. That's certainly a function of what fish I choose to keep, (smaller species from the deeply shaded forests) and it's probably there that we begin to see things differently. I try to keep my fish around 22-23, and never above 26.
I also have a total stop in breeding activity in my tanks when it's hot - a serious indicator that the fish are not happy in the higher range. To me, that relates to your excellent Nathan Hill quote.
Then again, you are talking about a couple of weeks of high heat for ich, not a longterm lifestyle.
It's hard to quantify these things _ I assume that you like me are an aquarist without a lab in the garage. I'd argue heat is worse for the fish than a quick dose of easily removed dye - you hold the opposite view. I haven't seen any evidence of malachite green getting into the organs at any harmful level - I have a group of cardinal tetras I treated for nasty Ich after arrival, and they are now well past 7 years in age. If I had treated only with heat and what I encountered was a heat resistant Ich, I wouldn't have had them 7 days.
The chemical I try to avoid most is salt, as it's really hard to get out and has a longterm effect on the water. Malachite green and Methelyne blue break down really fast - though Malachite green leaves traces in fish for way longer than meth. blue. In a pinch, I've cleared Ich with Methelyne blue, but it does stain. We do end up stuck with synthetic chemicals though - to dechlorinate, etc. To me, they are unavoidable.
As aquarists, we have anecdotes and not lab results - I'm guessing the original poster can look at both views and decide what seems sensible for his/her situation. All we can do is give our answers, and most importantly the reasons why we say what we do, and agree to disagree.
And yes, I avoid using meds any time I can. With good stocking, QTing and careful purchasing, you can avoid 99% of problems and go years with no treatments at all. But when you have to do it, do it how you think is right, quickly.
I also have a total stop in breeding activity in my tanks when it's hot - a serious indicator that the fish are not happy in the higher range. To me, that relates to your excellent Nathan Hill quote.
Then again, you are talking about a couple of weeks of high heat for ich, not a longterm lifestyle.
It's hard to quantify these things _ I assume that you like me are an aquarist without a lab in the garage. I'd argue heat is worse for the fish than a quick dose of easily removed dye - you hold the opposite view. I haven't seen any evidence of malachite green getting into the organs at any harmful level - I have a group of cardinal tetras I treated for nasty Ich after arrival, and they are now well past 7 years in age. If I had treated only with heat and what I encountered was a heat resistant Ich, I wouldn't have had them 7 days.
The chemical I try to avoid most is salt, as it's really hard to get out and has a longterm effect on the water. Malachite green and Methelyne blue break down really fast - though Malachite green leaves traces in fish for way longer than meth. blue. In a pinch, I've cleared Ich with Methelyne blue, but it does stain. We do end up stuck with synthetic chemicals though - to dechlorinate, etc. To me, they are unavoidable.
As aquarists, we have anecdotes and not lab results - I'm guessing the original poster can look at both views and decide what seems sensible for his/her situation. All we can do is give our answers, and most importantly the reasons why we say what we do, and agree to disagree.
And yes, I avoid using meds any time I can. With good stocking, QTing and careful purchasing, you can avoid 99% of problems and go years with no treatments at all. But when you have to do it, do it how you think is right, quickly.
No desire to argue, as the points we are raising are basically correct. It is a matter of which causes less stress. And on this, I have professional marine biologists recommending heat over any chemical/medication for ich. Including Dr. Neale Monks. I am not a biologist, but I accept the advice of those who are.
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