Popeye treatment

[Keels]

My Betta (Mr. Dolphin), has unfortunately developed a popeye - reason unknown, but most likely infection of some sort. One of his eyes 3 times it's size, and half of his face is pineconed. Water parameters are fine and he usually resides in a 15g planted tank with red cherry shrimps and snails. I moved him to my 3g cycled hospital tank for treatment. I started treatment with aquarium salt as that is what I have on hand. Unfortunately I can't get anything like Furan 2 or Kanaplex on a short notice, as you can't buy antibacterial meds over the counter where I live (Canada). I can buy them online, but get them only in a month from now. I should be able to buy something like Melafix tmrw, but I don't know if it's going to be effective.

Do you have any other treatment suggestions? I don't want to give up on the little guy without at least trying.

If he doesn't get better in 2-3 days (and is still alive), I'm probably going to put him down. He got worse through the day, and clearly in a lot of discomfort and pain. As hard as it is for me to ask this, what humane way is the to put him down? I heard you can use Clove oil, but I'm not sure of how much....

Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Colin_T]

Melafix won't do anything.

The easiest way to euthanise a small fish is to wrap it in a paper towel and hit it on the head with a hammer. If the fish has dropsy, wrap it in a few paper towels to stop the mess when you hit it. And do it outside on a piece of wood or concrete, not in the house coz it can get messy and smell.

 

[Fishiemang]

Harsh words mang...

My peacock.just recovered from pop eye. All I did was use Melafix and Pimafix, and changed a bit of water. His eye is back to normal, and he is fine.

The above, while most likely well intentioned, is kinda a dark treatment without giving the fish a shot.

Keep the water clean.in your hospital tank, add Melafix with Pimafix together in their proper doses for 7 days. They instruct a water change after 7 days, but I'd say a gallon a day would be better in your case. Change a gallon, then add these 2. 24 hours later repeat. At least give the lil.fella a chance.

If it is fatal, it will happen fast enough.

 

[Keels]

I do have to agree that I would rather not smash my fish.... At least before I try something. And if possible use a different method to put him down (i.e. Clove Oil if it works). @Fishiemang Do you use them both in the doses prescribed on the package? I also looked into Hikari Betta Revive. Looking into the ingredients, it seems to be a mix of anibactirial, anti-fungal and anti-parasitic med combination, and it's something I can actually get in 2 days rather than a hole month. Would that work potentially better?

 

[itiwhetu]

Please let us know how you get on. So often we never find out how meds work.

 

[Keels]

@itiwhetu I'll keep this thread posted, for better or worse. As of right now, only salt is being used untill I can actually get the other meds.

 

[Fishiemang]

Yes on both at the same.time.

The other you described may work as.well. is worth a shot. Whatever happened could take a.month...could be tomorrow....so whatever you can get now is better than nothing.

 

[the_lock_man]

My Betta (Mr. Dolphin), has unfortunately developed a popeye - reason unknown, but most likely infection of some sort. One of his eyes 3 times it's size, and half of his face is pineconed. Water parameters are fine and he usually resides in a 15g planted tank with red cherry shrimps and snails. I moved him to my 3g cycled hospital tank for treatment. I started treatment with aquarium salt as that is what I have on hand. Unfortunately I can't get anything like Furan 2 or Kanaplex on a short notice, as you can't buy antibacterial meds over the counter where I live (Canada). I can buy them online, but get them only in a month from now. I should be able to buy something like Melafix tmrw, but I don't know if it's going to be effective.

Do you have any other treatment suggestions? I don't want to give up on the little guy without at least trying.

If he doesn't get better in 2-3 days (and is still alive), I'm probably going to put him down. He got worse through the day, and clearly in a lot of discomfort and pain. As hard as it is for me to ask this, what humane way is the to put him down? I heard you can use Clove oil, but I'm not sure of how much....

Any advice is appreciated.

Hi Keels,

I'd love to know what your water stats (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels) actually are, rather than "fine". If you have taken a water sample to be tested at an LFS, their idea of "fine" is often vastly different to mine (ie 0 for ammonia and nitrite, approx 20-40 nitrate).

A straight case of popeye is usually related to water quality.

However, you mentioned that half of the face is pineconing, which would indicate some kind of swelling under the skin, possibly a tumour of some description.

Someone mentioned dropsy, but with dropsy the entire body pinecones, as the internal organs have all failed, so I would say it's not that.

It would be handy if you posted a photo, so we can see what the fish looks like.

 

[Huscarl86]

Melafix won't do anything.

The easiest way to euthanise a small fish is to wrap it in a paper towel and hit it on the head with a hammer. If the fish has dropsy, wrap it in a few paper towels to stop the mess when you hit it. And do it outside on a piece of wood or concrete, not in the house coz it can get messy and smell.

Really disappointed to read that, Colin.

OP, Please do a little research on the Clove oil method and put him down that way if you have to, and don't pluck him out of the water, wrap him in a towel and smash his head in.

I've never done it myself, but apparently you need to add a small dose to knock the fish out first, then add a larger dose to put it to sleep. I will try to look it up specific instructions but I am very busy, hopefully someone else can post a link.

Pineconing means your fish is in a very bad way, and it's not nice for him right now.


EDIT: Here's a link and some info, but please double check with another source, It's from RSPCA:

Clove Oil (contains eugenol)​

Clove oil is a sedative which at high doses, can be used to euthanase small fish. Unlike veterinary anaesthetics, clove oil is readily available from most chemists. Around 400 mg of clove oil per litre of aquarium water is sufficient to cause death in exposed fish. The clove oil should be mixed with a little warm water first before adding it to the water and fish slowly. Do not add all at once as fish get excited – add the clove oil mix over a 5 minute period.

When exposed to clove oil at this concentration fish quickly lose consciousness, stop breathing and die from hypoxia. Please note that the concentration of the solution must be appropriate and the fish must remain in the solution for at least 10 minutes.

Studies have found clove oil to be similar to the anaesthetics MS-222 and Benzocaine hydrochloride.

LINK TO THE PAGE

They do say that decapitation etc. can be a humane method when done correctly, However as I thought, the handling and wrapping of the fish to do that is going to cause him a lot of stress and a horrible end to his life.

 

[Keels]

Thank you for all of the comments and advice, his treatment was actually successful!
@itiwhetu here is the promised progress update:
The treatment started with moving him from the 15g to a cycled 3.5g hospital tank that I have running on the side just in case (and as a plant grow out tank). Removed any salt-sensitive plants, and added aquarium salt (slowly adding it through the day not to shock his system), for a total of 1 teaspoon per gallon. 2 Days after starting the treatment the meds arrived - Hikari Betta Revive. As I mentioned before, living in Canada, I can't easily get something like Furan 2 or Kanaplex, but looking into the ingredients of Hikari Betta Revive it seems to be a mix of antibacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-parasitic (neomycin sulfate, methylene blue, and malachite green chloride). Throughout the week, I was doing daily water changes prior to adding the daily dose of meds, and adding back only the amount of salt that I took out. I administered the meds for the first 6 days after it's arrival, but kept the salt until today (day 10 or 11th of the treatment). I started doing smaller daily water changes taking the salt out and replacing it with regular water. in a few days, I will be moving him back to the 15g.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure what helped him, the salt or the meds. He did seem to have gotten worse before getting better, but on the second day (while using salt only), he did become more responsive to food. From there, in the following days, the pineconing started going down and was completely gone by day 6 or 7. The eye took a bit longer, but now it is back to normal size, though I do have a feeling he doesn't see as well from it.

If there's anything to take from this, don't give up before you try!

 

[DancingBetta]

Thank you for all of the comments and advice, his treatment was actually successful!
@itiwhetu here is the promised progress update:
The treatment started with moving him from the 15g to a cycled 3.5g hospital tank that I have running on the side just in case (and as a plant grow out tank). Removed any salt-sensitive plants, and added aquarium salt (slowly adding it through the day not to shock his system), for the total of 1 teaspoon per gallon. 2 Days after starting the treatment the meds arrived - Hikari Betta Revive. As I mentioned before, living in Canada, I can't easily get something like Furan 2 or Kanaplex, but looking into the ingredients of Hikari Betta Revive it seems to be a mix of antibacterial, anti-fungal, and anti-parasitic (neomycin sulfate, methylene blue, and malachite green chloride). Throughout the week, I was doing daily water changes prior to adding the daily dose of meds, and adding back only the amount of salt that I took out. I administered the meds for the first 6 days after it's arrival, but kept the salt until today (day 10 or 11th of the treatment). I started doing smaller daily water changes taking the salt out and replacing it with regular water. in a few days, I will be moving him back to the 15g.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure what helped him, the salt or the mads. He did seem to have gotten worse before getting better, but on the second day (while using salt only), he did become more responsive to food. From there, in the following days, the pineconing started going down, and was completely gone by day 6 or 7. The eye took a bit longer, but now it is back to normal size, though I do have a feeling he doesn't see as well from it.

If there's anything to take from this, don't give up before you try!

I’m so glad the little dude made it!!! And that you didn’t smash him with a hammer! Of course, I’m always happy when fish don’t get smashed with hammers like cartoon characters!

 

[Mick85]

Good to hear you got him healed up man! Well done!

 

[itiwhetu]

Good result

 

[Keels]

Really disappointed to read that, Colin.

OP, Please do a little research on the Clove oil method and put him down that way if you have to, and don't pluck him out of the water, wrap him in a towel and smash his head in.

I've never done it myself, but apparently you need to add a small dose to knock the fish out first, then add a larger dose to put it to sleep. I will try to look it up specific instructions but I am very busy, hopefully someone else can post a link.

Pineconing means your fish is in a very bad way, and it's not nice for him right now.


EDIT: Here's a link and some info, but please double check with another source, It's from RSPCA:

Clove Oil (contains eugenol)​

Clove oil is a sedative which at high doses, can be used to euthanase small fish. Unlike veterinary anaesthetics, clove oil is readily available from most chemists. Around 400 mg of clove oil per litre of aquarium water is sufficient to cause death in exposed fish. The clove oil should be mixed with a little warm water first before adding it to the water and fish slowly. Do not add all at once as fish get excited – add the clove oil mix over a 5 minute period.

When exposed to clove oil at this concentration fish quickly lose consciousness, stop breathing and die from hypoxia. Please note that the concentration of the solution must be appropriate and the fish must remain in the solution for at least 10 minutes.

Studies have found clove oil to be similar to the anaesthetics MS-222 and Benzocaine hydrochloride.

LINK TO THE PAGE

They do say that decapitation etc. can be a humane method when done correctly, However as I thought, the handling and wrapping of the fish to do that is going to cause him a lot of stress and a horrible end to his life.

@Huscarl86 Thank you so much for the link! while I do hope I won't have to resort to it anytime soon, and my betta does seem to have almost fully recovered, this is definitely a better alternative than suffering for days before dying. I'll read through it, and keep it on hand for the future because to me it does seem like the most humane way to let a fish pass. And don't worry, I will do my own research too if it comes to it.