Please Help/update, They Are Better, Thanks Inchworm

[newfishaddict]

I have a 21g tank with 3 albino corries, 15 neon tetras, 1 red eye tetra, 1 white cloud mountain minnow. (I know about shoaling my lone fish, I will when the tank is “healthy”)

I noticed ich in the tank 24 hrs ago, on my neons. The ich was barely visible and I think I caught it early. I bought a medication from the store called “NOX-ICH” by WECO products inc. It has 0.5% sodium chloride, and 0.5% malachite green. It recommends ½ of a teaspoon (2.5ml) each day for 75 gallons if you have corries (higher dose (2x) if no corries). Will this be ok for my corries, I have heard that NACL is not good for them….

Also, my corries are being treating with an antibiotic called kanaplex. I am dosing the water and their food; they have very dark bellies and I was advised to treat them with antibiotic.

Today , following one day of ich treatment and two days of antibiotics, my two older (6 months) corries have reddish “sore” areas where their dorsal fin meets their body.

I am concerned and would love some expert advice, thanks so much, seasons greetings.

CHEERS!

DARK BELLIES GONE, CAUDAL FIN HAS ALMOST GROWN BACK COMPLETELY IN 36 HRS!

 

[Inchworm]

Hi newfishaddict

You have a couple of problems going on with the corys now. I'm not talking about the other fish here, just the corys.

They are getting worse, not better, with the meds you are using. I would suggest taking them out of the tank with ich so you can give it the full treatment, add salt, and raise the temperature. This will be best for the other fish. Since the corys don't get ich, they don't need to be treated for that.

An inexpensive 10 gallon tank is a good thing to have for a quarantine tank. You can take some of the media from your biggest tank to immediately cycle it well enough to serve those few corys. Don't take more than necessary because the antibiotics might kill it off anyway, in the long run.

The appearance of new red spots on them is a very bad sign. It's another symptom of bacterial infection. Since they are already sick, and the new stress of the ich medicine has been added to their troubles, I don't think they have much of a chance to recover. It's always worth trying though.

Once they are safely in quarantine, they will have nice clean and fresh water and that will help them right there. Keep the temperature on the cool side (no more than 75 degrees F., preferably lower) and be sure there is good water circulation. I suggest completing the course of Kanaplex. If that doesn't work, you might try doing a couple of water changes and trying another antibiotic. One teaspoon of aquarium salt dissolved in the quarantine tank won't hurt them and might even help.

How much longer do you have until the Kanaplex treatment is finished?

 

[Teelie]

Also, malachite green is a carcinogen banned in many countries and it is toxic to catfish.
http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm

 

[newfishaddict]

Also, malachite green is a carcinogen banned in many countries and it is toxic to catfish.
http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm

I am not a fish/aquarium expert but I am a carcinogen expert; the public does not understand that 50% of all "chemicals" or "things" tested for carcinogenicity are carcinogens......it means little....The government agencies that make those decisions are not based on science as much as public pressure....

 

[newfishaddict]

Hi newfishaddict

You have a couple of problems going on with the corys now. I'm not talking about the other fish here, just the corys.

They are getting worse, not better, with the meds you are using. I would suggest taking them out of the tank with ich so you can give it the full treatment, add salt, and raise the temperature. This will be best for the other fish. Since the corys don't get ich, they don't need to be treated for that.

An inexpensive 10 gallon tank is a good thing to have for a quarantine tank. You can take some of the media from your biggest tank to immediately cycle it well enough to serve those few corys. Don't take more than necessary because the antibiotics might kill it off anyway, in the long run.

The appearance of new red spots on them is a very bad sign. It's another symptom of bacterial infection. Since they are already sick, and the new stress of the ich medicine has been added to their troubles, I don't think they have much of a chance to recover. It's always worth trying though.

Once they are safely in quarantine, they will have nice clean and fresh water and that will help them right there. Keep the temperature on the cool side (no more than 75 degrees F., preferably lower) and be sure there is good water circulation. I suggest completing the course of Kanaplex. If that doesn't work, you might try doing a couple of water changes and trying another antibiotic. One teaspoon of aquarium salt dissolved in the quarantine tank won't hurt them and might even help.

How much longer do you have until the Kanaplex treatment is finished?

Thanks again Inchworm!
I understand what you are saying. Strangely enough I purchased a 10g quarantine tank 24hrs before my fish got sick...I will move my corries to that tank now and adjust temp to 75. When you say to keep the temp in the quarantine low, what is optimum? I will adjust it exactly....

I have dosed kanaplex every 24hrs for 48 hrs, and another dose is due now...so 3 days total. The directions suggest only 3 days of treatment...so today would be the last day....I am a microbiologist and this seems like a very short amount of time to administer antibiotics but I do not know fish, I know food and genetics.... any comments about the duration of treatment? I thought I would use maracin (spelling?) one and two next , at the same time for the corries in the 10g isolation tank. Should I keep feeding kanaplex laced food? how long?

Good news, is in my 55g I have two filters one is small and I will use it in the new quarantine tank to cycle it immediately...

Do you suggest 1 teaspoon per 10g for the 10g quarantine tank for the corries?

Do you think this happened because I don’t quarantine fish? I got my 3rd corrie a week ago and that is my only new addition in a while, I have very good water stats and have not had a sick fish for a long time, I am a bit confused why the illnesses in my tanks now.....

 

[Inchworm]

Hi newfishaddict

Albino C. aeneus, which is the species your corys most likely are, can be quite comfortable in water as low as 72 degrees, and even lower. The cooler water slows the reproduction of some of the more harmful bacteria, so anywhere between 72 and 75 degrees F. would be good. Having a high level of oxygen in the water also makes living difficult for the bacteria, so while neither of these things will eliminate them completely, it might help some.

I think the length of time to administer the Kanaplex is short too and usually continue longer. I hesitate to recommend it, against the manufacturer's directions, but I usually repeat the course of treatment myself. If you feel comfortable doing so, it doesn't seem to hurt the fish. IMHO, it would be much more risky to stop the treatment before the recommended time than to continue it longer.

From what I understand however, some bacterial infections will respond better to one antibiotic than another, and since we have no way to make an exact diagnosis, the only way to find out what will cure your fish is to try another medication, if the first doesn't seem to work. It will depend on your judgement when to make that change.

Marilyn and Marilyn 2 are supposed to treat different kinds of infections but are safe to use as a combination, so that might be good to try once you finish the Kanaplex. Many people like to give them Tetracycline, but in my experience, the Kanaplex has worked better. However, it's one to keep in mind.

The salt is just something you can add to make them more comfortable. The small amount of 1 tsp. per 10 gallons won't hurt them if it's only used for medicinal reasons and removed when they recover.

Have you given any thought to what might have brought on an outbreak of ich? That's another thing that's in most tanks but remains dormant until something like a sudden drop in temperature happens. Bacterial infections are sometimes caused by sudden rises in temperature. Could there be something wrong with your heater?

Harmful bacteria are usually in tanks, but seldom attack a healthy fish. If your newest cory was weakened before you got him, perhaps he introduced a new strain that the older corys were not immune to, so they became sick as well.

And, what are you feeding them? I prefer live blackworms and live tubifex worms, provided they are kept very clean. It seems that frozen blackworms and other frozen foods do not have a long safe period in the tank. If the fish were fed too much, the excess breaks down and becomes food for bacteria in a very short length of time. I don't trust this food and have experienced sick fish after feeding it. If you use it, be sure to quickly remove any leftover bits as soon as the fish have lost interest in eating it. If the fish have any interest in food at all, its a good sigh. I can't think that providing then with good nourish net could do anything but build their strength up and make them able to fight their disease.

 

[newfishaddict]

Hi newfishaddict

Albino C. aeneus, which is the species your corys most likely are, can be quite comfortable in water as low as 72 degrees, and even lower. The cooler water slows the reproduction of some of the more harmful bacteria, so anywhere between 72 and 75 degrees F. would be good. Having a high level of oxygen in the water also makes living difficult for the bacteria, so while neither of these things will eliminate them completely, it might help some.

I think the length of time to administer the Kanaplex is short too and usually continue longer. I hesitate to recommend it, against the manufacturer's directions, but I usually repeat the course of treatment myself. If you feel comfortable doing so, it doesn't seem to hurt the fish. IMHO, it would be much more risky to stop the treatment before the recommended time than to continue it longer.

From what I understand however, some bacterial infections will respond better to one antibiotic than another, and since we have no way to make an exact diagnosis, the only way to find out what will cure your fish is to try another medication, if the first doesn't seem to work. It will depend on your judgement when to make that change.

Marilyn and Marilyn 2 are supposed to treat different kinds of infections but are safe to use as a combination, so that might be good to try once you finish the Kanaplex. Many people like to give them Tetracycline, but in my experience, the Kanaplex has worked better. However, it's one to keep in mind.

The salt is just something you can add to make them more comfortable. The small amount of 1 tsp. per 10 gallons won't hurt them if it's only used for medicinal reasons and removed when they recover.

Have you given any thought to what might have brought on an outbreak of ich? That's another thing that's in most tanks but remains dormant until something like a sudden drop in temperature happens. Bacterial infections are sometimes caused by sudden rises in temperature. Could there be something wrong with your heater?

Harmful bacteria are usually in tanks, but seldom attack a healthy fish. If your newest cory was weakened before you got him, perhaps he introduced a new strain that the older corys were not immune to, so they became sick as well.

And, what are you feeding them? I prefer live blackworms and live tubifex worms, provided they are kept very clean. It seems that frozen blackworms and other frozen foods do not have a long safe period in the tank. If the fish were fed too much, the excess breaks down and becomes food for bacteria in a very short length of time. I don't trust this food and have experienced sick fish after feeding it. If you use it, be sure to quickly remove any leftover bits as soon as the fish have lost interest in eating it. If the fish have any interest in food at all, its a good sigh. I can't think that providing then with good nourish net could do anything but build their strength up and make them able to fight their disease.

Seasons Greetings Inchworm! And anyone else too…

I have monitored my temp closely in my 21g (and all my tanks) and my heater is very precise (it stays at 77-78 F all the time). When I do water changes I heat the water being added so that it is within a two degrees F BUT, a few days before I saw ich in my 21g (on tetras) I did a 20% water change and failed to notice that the water I added had not heated up properly. The temp in my tank did a sudden drop of about 5-7 degrees F. This could have induced my ich in my 21g. (This does not explain ich in my 55g , the temp is very stable at 77F…)

But my albino corries have had dark bellies since day one (2-3 months ago) but the darkening seems to be increasing….as you said the bacterial infections can progress slowly or quickly and in this case seems to have progressed slowly. (part of me still wonders if my albino corries just have darker organs than their white “skin”…) Of course with one of my corries missing half his caudal fin (tail fin) this increases the chances they are actually sick to about 100% , perhaps….

I am feeding them(they still have a good apatite and have been eating my food paste made of soaked sinking wafers laced with kanaplex):
1)a few flakes that fall to the bottom , the ones my tetras miss
2)I feed them hikari sinking disks too
3)twice a week I have been feeding frozen blood worms & brine shrimp that are rinsed well in treated water

I always, with all my fish, wonder if I am over or underfeeding….the guideline that says “feed what you fish will eat in 2-3 minutes” seems very ambiguous, especially with different species and their various feeding habits.…(my redline torpedo barbs seem like they could eat a horse in 3 minutes…)

I have read recently that corries need some greens/fiber, cucumber was suggested…do you agree?

I will try to find the live foods you have suggested this weekend….

Any good books or websites regarding corries , that you know of?

 

[Teelie]

Also, malachite green is a carcinogen banned in many countries and it is toxic to catfish.
http/www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/malachite.htm

I am not a fish/aquarium expert but I am a carcinogen expert; the public does not understand that 50% of all "chemicals" or "things" tested for carcinogenicity are carcinogens......it means little....The government agencies that make those decisions are not based on science as much as public pressure....

I know that the "everything in cancer" epidemic is going on and they find it in everything, which I agree is completely stupid but in this case, even the excluding it's carinogenic properties, its other properties and caution against using for scaleless fish (the warning singles out catfish imparticularly), not to mention the irritation it causes to the gills should be reason enough not to use it for any fish. The fish would be under enough stress without the added complications of the medicene. It's almost worse to use the cure than let the disease itself run its course sometimes.

Inchworm though of course has the better solution to the disease problems which I would suggest instead.

 

[Inchworm]

Hi newfishaddict

I'm happy to read that your corys have recovered.

I never tried feeding the KanaPlex to them, but that alone must have done them a lot of good. I hope I never have to do it, but now if the situation arises, I won't hesitate. Thanks for letting me know how you did it.

I feed my corys Wardley's Spirulina Discs for their veggies. It's easy and less messy than preparing human food for them.