Plants, Lighting, Algae...

[itonlyrains]

I've been running my tropical tank for the last two and a half month and now that my livestock and water quality is stable its time to get back to planting it right. Here is my set up:

- 150 litres (40G), 2x35W Juwel lighting for 8 hours a day, external Eheim 2224 filter, No CO2/ferts, gravel substrate
- Hard water, temperature: 25C, pH: 7.5, Nitrates: ~40, Phosphates: < 0.25 (using Rowa Phos), weekly water changes (~30-40%)
- Livestock: 6 Platies (plus dozen fry), 3 Guppies, 2 Perl Gouramis, 4 Otos, 18 Amano shrimp
- Plants:
-- Tropical Hornwort
-- Green Cabomba
-- Ozelot Sword
-- Pilea Cadierei (I know I know...)
-- Red Foxtail (Red Myriophyllum)
-- Something from Hygrophila family (thick stems, lots of pointy leaves)

Initially I had my lighting for 12h/day and brown algae was really blooming, but Cabomba and Hornwort really taken off and helped cycling the tank (since then I have to trim them almost every couple of weeks). Then I reduced that to 6 hours, got rid of algae and increased to 8 hours (running like that for the last month or so). Now in general I can see that plants I have currently are not doing particularly well (I had more but some I took away as they got eaten by pest snails I had, which thankfully I got rid as well by now).

I'm planning to get rid off Cabomba and Hornwort as they produce too much debris (Platy fry really likes pulling leaves away) and require regularly trimming (which I'm a bit tired of and my better half thinks it not normal to use net to clean the tank every couple of days), however even they are looking a bit brownish on top and do not grow as fast as they used to. May be it has to do with fish nipping it.

Ozelot sword is doing well, so is Hygrophila (which is by far the biggest plat I have in the tank now). The only problem with Hygro is that something eating it. I thought it was snails, but I haven't had any for the last 2-3 weeks and something still eating it - certain leaves are eaten starting with inside holes, not from the sides. May be its my Amano shrimp?

I know Pilea Cadierei is not an aquarium plant (missus liked it in the shop and we didn't do research), but so far its doing well and if it dies then I'll just get rid of it.

Red Foxtail not doing particularly well. I placed it a bit wrong (between Cabomba and Hygro) and seeing that its a high light plant I don't think it got enough with 8 hours of light and shades from the other plants (Cabomba is moved to another place now though). Should I be trying to keep it or its not worth it?

In the past few days I also noticed some sort of algae coming back on the gravel and larger pebbles - not sure its diatoms again, it looks more black that it used to. Not having anything on the plants themselves. Nothing is on the glass as well (apart from green round spots at the gravel level) - probably because otos are cleaning it pretty good.

So what sort of light level (strength/duration) I should be aiming for? Is 8 hours enough and what plants would be suitable for that? I was thinking about getting Java Fern and Sagittaria Subulata instead of fast growing stems to minimize maintenance. Any other suggestions? I definitely won't go CO2 route, but could do ferts if needed. Thanks!

P.S. Any other comments about my set up are welcomed as well.

 

[stu40]

Hi & welcome.
Do you know if your lights are T5 (5/8" diameter) or T8 (1" diameter). It looks like you're running at 1.75Wpg the the mo, and if they're T5 bulbs you're going to need some form of CO2 addition.Probably will if they're T8's as well.
The small holes on the Hygro could be signs of a lack of CO2, as well as the fact that the plants are suffering and algae has reappeared.Any pics of tank?
8 hours should be fine to grow most plants.Have you read this PARC?
If you don't want to go down the CO2 route (one form or another) then reducing the lighting intensity might need to be looked at.

Stu

 

[itonlyrains]

It is T5 indeed. I can try lowering that down if I can find Juwel compatible lower intensity T5s (742mm). Do they exist?

The wholes on the hygro were always there even when algae was not present (but may be something started eating them after holes appeared). I looked at it more closely now and actually I see quite a few green round spots of algae (on the sword as well actually). I'm sure it was not there a week ago!

P.S. I was reading intros to planted tanks on many sites and all come with different definition of low/medium/high wpg values. Looking at the book "101 best aquarium plants" now and it says that its 1wpg/2-3wpg/4-5wpg

 

[itonlyrains]

Also forgot to mention that I use reflectors over T5s. Would it help removing them if intensity is the problem?

 

[stu40]

WPG is only a rough guide as it wasn't written with T5's in mind, they're a lot more efficent than T8's, but it does give an approx idea where you are in the scheme of things.
Reflectors add something like 50% extra light output. I stand to be corrected, but with 1.75 WPG of T5 + reflectors IMO you'll need CO2
If you could post some pics, someone on here may well be able to identify the problem
Tank sounds like a good start though

edit: the wattage of bulbs is linked to their length,so 742mm is a 35W only.

 

[itonlyrains]

OK, so change of T5s is out of the questions then. I removed reflectors for a start though. How about changing lighting unit to T8s then? Its going to be 2x25w - will that be too low?

As for the pictures here are some (background will look really nice, but its actually a poster on the back wall of the tank).

First, the algae (I think diatoms are back ):

Green spots on the Ozelot Sword (dark spots are natural to this plant), otos like suck on this:

Hornword and Cabomba not doing well:

Eaten Hygro with holes:

 

[itonlyrains]

Any feedback, anyone?

 

[itonlyrains]

Talking to myself here Is something like Flourish Excel going to help if CO2 is the issue?

 

[ian]

this is a low C02 and low PO4 issue. The lighting on these Juwel aquariums is high, for the tank. You could try some excel, but you're gonna have to start using some more ferts, something like Tropica plant nutrition +. This all in one fert contains N03 and P04, plus your trace elements.

Do you have the option for pressurised C02?

 

[itonlyrains]

Ok. This is interesting. My tap water is quite high on phosphates: 3-4ppm. I thought that be too much and is using rowa phos to remove it. After water changes the level is about 1ppm and after a week it's less than 0.25ppm. Shall I stop doing this? The only reason I was doing it in the first place us to battle the diatom bloom.

As far as co2 - definitely not going that route yet, but I'm ready to start doing ferts. Already ordered some from eBay( mix that minnnt was recommending on this forum). Also I have read holes in the leaves are a sign of lack of potassium, so ferts would help with that.

But if the lighting is real issue though - shall I go back to T8s and less light?

 

[stu40]

Holes in leaves can also be down to lack of Co2, this is a prob that i had.Going to T8's will lower your lighting to a better level for no Co2, though you might still need some ferts depending on stocking levels and plant mass.
Depends on whether you want to spend money changing your lighting unit.
If you stay how you are you could make it work with Excel & ferts, but these both cost, & you'll need to do 50% water changes every week.More money & do more work? but grow most plants.
Or change to T8's (maybe find 2nd hand unit on Ebay or Aq Classifieds:like i did), and go more low tech? less money,less work but grow less types of plants.

 

[itonlyrains]

First, happy new year!

I see the options now indeed. I'll have to look at T8 units, but I don't think the route with a new one going to be cheaper than ferts/excel.

About water changes - I do them 30-40% already, does it need to be really 50% when doing ferts and why? Thanks.

 

[stu40]

Keep an eye out for 2nd hand like this.
re. the 50%. Increased growth leads to increased metabolic waste which can lead to an ammonia spike.Also it helps 'reset' the fert levels as we're dosing higher levels than the plants can uptake.

 

[itonlyrains]

Oh, thats a good link. For some reason it's not coming up through the search via mobile app, so I would not have picked it up.

I understand about water changes now, thanks.