Planting A Tank Whilst Fishless Cycling?

[L2wis]

Hi all,
 
I'm new here and also new to keeping fish, I've been reading the stickies and FAQ's on starting a tank and some posts on water changing and stuff.
 
My question is in regards to a fishless cycle to get a tank established enough for fish, during the cycle period is it possible to plant (real plants)?
 
I'm very keen on keeping real plants rather thank using silk and plastic but wanted to find out what was commonly thought of the best practice whilst cycling.
 
I've not got a tank yet but I want a tank around 100 - 150 litres in size.
 
Kind regards
 
Lewis.

 

[Byron]

I always have planted tanks, so when I set up a new tank, or re-set an existing tank to change out the substrate, I plant it well including some floating plants.  Then I add fish.  If you have sufficient plants and they include fast growing plants (floating plants are ideal) and they are obviously growing, the first few fish will not have any problems.  Ammonia and nitrite will be zero.  The cycle will still establish, but "unseen," which is why this method is often termed "invisible cycling."
 
I would not add any form of pure ammonia with plants, as you might harm and even kill them.  Ammonia is highly toxic to all life forms, including plants.
 
There are a couple recent threads on this in the planted chit chat section I think, and some members have gone into more detail on how it works.
 
Byron.

 

[L2wis]

Cool stuff! I'm glad it's possible to do as the prospect of looking at an empty tank was a bit off putting haha!

I did some googling and I found someone referring to the process as silent cycling, it certainly sounds like the approach that would suit me best.

I'd still give it plenty of time before I put fish in because I don't want to rush into buying a species before I've learnt enough about all the different ones. I think Cherry barbs are probably my favourite so far thou.

Keeping my eye out for a tank on Gumtree and ebay.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[Byron]

Cool stuff! I'm glad it's possible to do as the prospect of looking at an empty tank was a bit off putting haha!

I did some googling and I found someone referring to the process as silent cycling, it certainly sounds like the approach that would suit me best.

I'd still give it plenty of time before I put fish in because I don't want to rush into buying a species before I've learnt enough about all the different ones. I think Cherry barbs are probably my favourite so far thou.

Keeping my eye out for a tank on Gumtree and ebay.

Thanks for your advice.

 
Yes, silent cycling is what I was thinking of...sometimes I get my terms confused.

 

[Ch4rlie]

While I do agree that silent cycling is certainly possible and many experienced keepers do use this method.
 
For a new keeper, not so sure.
 
Think may be best to stick with the Cycling Article from this forum, 
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
 
Put plants in and aquascape to satisfaction, then leave tank and plants to settle for 2 weeks or so, then add 2 ppm of ammonia, test of ammonia and nitrite in 24 hours and the results will show you what to do next.
 
That method, I believe is the easiest method for a new beginner to this hobby to start to do a cycle.

 

[L2wis]

I want to develop my tank slowly so the fish wouldn't be for a handful of weeks after the plants are installed.I actually got my tank today, I think its around 90lt in capacity, the dimensions on the listing were L30" x H15" x W12". I'm going to measure it myself to be sure.

I've got some tank setup research to do now, if I have some questions am I best posting them to this thread or should I create a new post elsewhere?

Regards

Lewis

 

[TallTree01]

You can post all questions you have in this thread, L2wis.
It's fine to have plants during a fishless cycle. If anything they'll speed it up as they consume ammonia.

 

[L2wis]

Okay! I have a starter question, when I brought my tank it came with an air pump and an under gravel filter tray thing, both of which look like they've seen better days so I wasn't keen on using them and I would also like to use sand as my base substrate (think that is the right word for it?).
 
My question is this, what type of filter would you all recommend? I've been reading an article over here: http/www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_filters.php but I have to admit I am still not all that clear on what I need?
 

I also need to sort out some lighting and a heater, the might be a bit more challenging as the hood doesn't seem to have any bulb mounts?

 

[TallTree01]

If you need a filter generally the best ones are canisters. They take a while to set up due to having to chop up pipes and attach them etc but they're the most efficient in most aquarium situations.
I am rather lazy so I prefer plug and go filters, I prefer internals and HOBs, Sheerly because I don't want to play with all the pipes and stuff when setting up a cannister.
For the lights, seeing as there's no way to put globes in the hood, I would take off the hood altogether if possible and make a new one out of mesh or glass. You could buy a new one, your dimensions are quite standard and it may not be out of the question to find a good with a light installed in it.

 

[L2wis]

Thanks for the reply!
 
I think I'm going to be more like yourself and prefer an internal one, I found this one: http/fishkeeper.co.uk/product/aqua-range-aqua-internal-200-filter#product-details
 
It's a bit cheaper on amazon.co.uk mind you, do you think it looks okay? There is a slightly smaller one that the manufacturer states suits 50 - 100L but I thought that with my tank being around 90L the next size up might be better? 
 
I'll take some photos of the insides of the hood later as there is a compartment like area at the back but I can't work out how that would allow light through to the tank. Making a wooden hood could be on the cards if not because I'm a hobby woodworker.

 

[L2wis]

I'm thinking this filter looks better than the one above: http/fishkeeper.co.uk/product/fluval-u2-internal-filter-110-l-30-us-gal

 

[fluttermoth]

Can you post the pic of the inside of your hood, OP? I think I have one the same, and you can mount lights in it, but I need to see the pics to be sure, and so i can tell you how to do it

 

[Byron]

Pickling up on issues from your recent posts, starting with sand.  This is an ideal substrate, I now have sand in six of my seven operating aquaria.  I use common play sand.  Substrate fish (like corys, loaches and substrate feeders like cichlids) do very well over this, and plant growth is good.
 
On a filter, you are correct that an undergravel won't function with sand, and either of the linked internal filters would be sufficient in a planted tank of this size.  If your air pump is stilloperable, another option is just a dual sponge filter, like the Hagen Elite dual sponge.  I use this in my smaller tanks (30g and below) as they are planted and this is sufficient.  You will be getting fairly quiet/sedate fish rather than active swimmers, so you do not need strong water currents.
 
The light is an important consideration with plants.  You want something with a colour temp around 5000K to 7000K.  LED is very popular now, though I am still using T8 fluorescent.
 
On the cycling, I really do not advocate adding ammonia once you have plants.  I have known this to kill the plants.  With fast-growing plants, and including floating species, you will not have issues with a few small initial fish.  I have done this dozens of times.  You will need to use liquid fertilizer from the start too.
 
Byron.

 

[TallTree01]

The U2 is a good filter, a mate had one in the cichlid tank. One thing to be mindful of is that fish tended to get stuck between the filter and the glass. So when you set it up be sure to check it regularly.

 

[L2wis]

Thanks for the replies all, your informations is incredibly helpful! I was wondering about the light situation Byron so you beat me to it!

Here is a pic of the underside of my hood, I think I know where a bulb could be mounted now but any instructions that might help would be good!

http/i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/L2wis/DSC_1155.jpg

http/i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/L2wis/DSC_1156.jpg

@Talltree01: I don't like the sound of poor fish getting stuck! Is there anyway your friend avoided it or do they just been periodically rescuing. Might keep researching more filters.